Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 45 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 670

Thread: Bush backs Intelligent Design

  1. #1
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    31,208

    Bush backs Intelligent Design

    But read carefully: Bush "backs" intelligent design but uses mouthpiece Marburger to appeal to the non-whacko Republican base. Pretty humorous.

    Bush Remarks Roil Debate on Teaching of Evolution
    By ELISABETH BUMILLER

    WASHINGTON, Aug. 2 - A sharp debate between scientists and religious conservatives escalated Tuesday over comments by President Bush that the theory of intelligent design should be taught with evolution in the nation's public schools.

    In an interview at the White House on Monday with a group of Texas newspaper reporters, Mr. Bush appeared to endorse the push by many of his conservative Christian supporters to give intelligent design equal treatment with the theory of evolution.

    Recalling his days as Texas governor, Mr. Bush said in the interview, according to a transcript, "I felt like both sides ought to be properly taught." Asked again by a reporter whether he believed that both sides in the debate between evolution and intelligent design should be taught in the schools, Mr. Bush replied that he did, "so people can understand what the debate is about."

    Mr. Bush was pressed as to whether he accepted the view that intelligent design was an alternative to evolution, but he did not directly answer. "I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," he said, adding that "you're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, and the answer is yes."

    On Tuesday, the president's conservative Christian supporters and the leading institute advancing intelligent design embraced Mr. Bush's comments while scientists and advocates of the separation of church and state disparaged them. At the White House, where intelligent design has been discussed in a weekly Bible study group, Mr. Bush's science adviser, John H. Marburger 3rd, sought to play down the president's remarks as common sense and old news.

    Mr. Marburger said in a telephone interview that "evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology" and "intelligent design is not a scientific concept." Mr. Marburger also said that Mr. Bush's remarks should be interpreted to mean that the president believes that intelligent design should be discussed as part of the "social context" in science classes.

    Intelligent design, advanced by a group of academics and intellectuals and some biblical creationists, disputes the idea that natural selection - the force Charles Darwin suggested drove evolution - fully explains the complexity of life. Instead, intelligent design proponents say that life is so intricate that only a powerful guiding force, or intelligent designer, could have created it.

    Intelligent design does not identify the designer, but critics say the theory is a thinly disguised argument for God and the divine creation of the universe. Invigorated by a recent push by conservatives, the theory has been gaining support in school districts in 20 states, with Kansas in the lead.

    Mr. Marburger said it would be "over-interpreting" Mr. Bush's remarks to say that the president believed that intelligent design and evolution should be given equal treatment in schools.

    But Mr. Bush's conservative supporters said the president had indicated exactly that in his remarks.

    "It's what I've been pushing, it's what a lot of us have been pushing," said Richard Land, the president of the ethics and religious liberties commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. Dr. Land, who has close ties to the White House, said that evolution "is too often taught as fact," and that "if you're going to teach the Darwinian theory as evolution, teach it as theory. And then teach another theory that has the most support among scientists."

    But critics saw Mr. Bush's comment that "both sides" should be taught as the most troubling aspect of his remarks.

    "It sounds like you're being fair, but creationism is a sectarian religious viewpoint, and intelligent design is a sectarian religious viewpoint," said Susan Spath, a spokeswoman for the National Center for Science Education, a group that defends the teaching of evolution in public schools. "It's not fair to privilege one religious viewpoint by calling it the other side of evolution."

    Ms. Spath added that intelligent design was viewed as more respectable and sophisticated than biblical creationism, but "if you look at their theological and scientific writings, you see that the movement is fundamentally anti-evolution."

    The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, the executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, called the president's comments irresponsible, and said that "when it comes to evolution, there is only one school of scientific thought, and that is evolution occurred and is still occurring." Mr. Lynn added that "when it comes to matters of religion and philosophy, they can be discussed objectively in public schools, but not in biology class."

    The Discovery Institute in Seattle, a leader in developing intelligent design, applauded the president's words on Tuesday as a defense of scientists who have been ostracized for advancing the theory.

    "We interpret this as the president using his bully pulpit to support freedom of inquiry and free speech about the issue of biological origins," said Stephen Meyer, the director of the institute's Center for Science and Culture. "It's extremely timely and welcome because so many scientists are experiencing recriminations for breaking with Darwinist orthodoxy."

    At the White House, intelligent design was the subject of a weekly Bible study class several years ago when Charles W. Colson, the founder and chairman of Prison Fellowship Ministries, spoke to the group. Mr. Colson has also written a book, "The Good Life," in which a chapter on intelligent design features Michael Gerson, an evangelical Christian who is an assistant to the president for policy and strategic planning.

    "It's part of the buzz of the city among Christians," Mr. Colson said in a telephone interview on Tuesday about intelligent design. "It wouldn't surprise me that it got to George Bush. He reads, he picks stuff up, he talks to people. And he's pretty serious about his own Christian beliefs."
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    62,142

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    I went to public school, got taught evolution, am a Christian and don't think it's horrible or evil that I was taught evolution.

    I have no idea how it all works out..it's in my list of questions for when I get to heaven, right after "Why Skunks?!?"

    Go Gators!

  4. #3
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Cbus
    Posts
    7,256

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    I was taught neither of them. My teacher didn't make a big deal out of it. It wasn't a big deal to me or any of my classmates either.

    I lived.
    All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

  5. #4
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beavercreek
    Posts
    11,774

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    It's been so long since I was in school, I don't even remember what we were taught. Had a big effect on me.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  6. #5
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    57,121

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by creek14
    It's been so long since I was in school, I don't even remember what we were taught. Had a big effect on me.
    Duck and cover.... endorsed by all.

  7. #6
    Member pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    15,237

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Duck and cover.... endorsed by all.
    School's out. What did you expect?

  8. #7
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    13,572

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    Teachers probably won't have time to teach either of these if they don't appear on a state proficiency test.
    /r/reds

  9. #8
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    31,208

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted
    Teachers probably won't have time to teach either of these if they don't appear on a state proficiency test.
    Or the ACT/SAT. It's one of the benefits of a disinterested scientific test. It cuts both ways. Trust me, the Princeton Review's going to tell these fruitcakes to go jump in a lake.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  10. #9
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    13,579

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    For a universe supposedly constructed on "Intelligent Design" there's a lot of stuff that just doesn't make any sense...

    I tend to quote a bumper sticker I saw once:

    "You promise not to pray in my schools
    I promise not to think your church"
    Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022

  11. #10
    Member pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    15,237

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    How ironic.
    School's out. What did you expect?

  12. #11
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beavercreek
    Posts
    11,774

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Duck and cover.... endorsed by all.
    Oh yeah, I remember that. Even at age 8 I was wondering how in the heck that was going to protect us.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  13. #12
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    45,833

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    Being the science advisor to the Bush administration must be a little like being the Jewish community affairs advocate for the Spanish Inquisition.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  14. #13
    Member traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Columbus, OH area
    Posts
    19,924

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, the executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, called the president's comments irresponsible, and said that "when it comes to evolution, there is only one school of scientific thought, and that is evolution occurred and is still occurring." Mr. Lynn added that "when it comes to matters of religion and philosophy, they can be discussed objectively in public schools, but not in biology class."
    Speaking of irresponsible...that's Mr. Lynn's opinion, and yes, I said OPINION. Does he mean micro evolution or macro evolution? Does he have any scientific evidence that is occurring as we speak? Oh, that's right, we need millions of years, you can't actually see anything happening, but then I forgot the fossil record and the various missing link frauds that have been trotted out, but I digress.
    Last edited by traderumor; 08-03-2005 at 09:52 PM.
    "Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"

  15. #14
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    31,208

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Speaking of irresponsible...that's Mr. Lynn's opinion, and yes, I said OPINION. Does he mean micro evolution or macro evolution? Does he have any scientific evidence that is occurring as we speak? Oh, that's right, we need millions of years, you can't actually see anything happening, but then I forgot the fossil record and the various missing link frauds that have been trotted out, but I digress.
    I can't argue that Mr Lynn's point is an opinion. It is.

    But what isn't an opinion is that the science used to help bolster the *theory* of evolution is based in rigorous scientific method and inquiry.

    The "science" of intelligent design dispenses almost entirely with the scientific method and leaps to conclusions that only a religious kind of faith could brook.

    That's the substantive difference. And that's not opinion.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  16. #15
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Williamsburg, OH and the wilds.
    Posts
    8,993

    Re: Bush backs Intelligent Design

    But what isn't an opinion is that the science used to help bolster the *theory* of evolution is based in rigorous scientific method and inquiry.

    The "science" of intelligent design dispenses almost entirely with the scientific method and leaps to conclusions that only a religious kind of faith could brook.
    yet i see the exact opposite of that.
    the store for all your blade, costuming (in any regard), leather (also in any regard), and steel craft needs.www.facebook.com/tdhshop


    yes, this really is how we make our living.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator