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Thread: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

  1. #331
    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo
    So I have been thinking about this, and I am really wavering. Is college truly for everyone? If you did not achieve a certain educational status or base of knowledge in high school, why should you be allowed in college?

    Now maybe people change, and at some point become more interested or devoted to education. If this is true, I would hope some loophole would exist to allow them to retest and enter. But if they do not have basic levels of aptitude, then I think they should not make it into college. It is an institute of higher learning, a privelage not a right.

    As it is there are articles of oversaturation of college graduates. I am curious how many would be weeded out if graduation and admission standards were raised.

    For those who went to college, how many partied their way through it, or knew many who did? Would not the value of the degree be more to others and yourself if you truly had to work to get it, earning it and not just receiving for service time?

    While college as a giant party seems like fun, and I along with many of you would hate to see all that go, if college was to truly be an institute of higher learning, than those who are not trying should not be allowed, just like the thugs and vagrants mentioned above.

    I am just pointing out a bit of a double standard, and that reform should affect all, not just a basketball team.
    No, college isn't truly for everyone. But state schools such as UC have to be in a position to accept students that wouldn't get into private schools that have higher standards for admissions.

    If you party your way through college, I think one of two things happens:

    1. You figure out how to party and still get good enough grades to get your degree.

    2. You don't figure out the above and you get suspended for bad grades and/or have to quit college.

    And seeing as how the college isn't going to know who will or will not become a "partier," how could they have any control over it when it comes to admissions?

    I coasted through a good number of my college classes, but still graduated with honors. Is that my fault, or the university's fault? Do I not deserve my degree because I didn't "try" as much as I could have?

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  3. #332
    Porkchop Sandwiches DoogMinAmo's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    No, college isn't truly for everyone. But state schools such as UC have to be in a position to accept students that wouldn't get into private schools that have higher standards for admissions.

    If you party your way through college, I think one of two things happens:

    1. You figure out how to party and still get good enough grades to get your degree.

    2. You don't figure out the above and you get suspended for bad grades and/or have to quit college.

    And seeing as how the college isn't going to know who will or will not become a "partier," how could they have any control over it when it comes to admissions?

    I coasted through a good number of my college classes, but still graduated with honors. Is that my fault, or the university's fault? Do I not deserve my degree because I didn't "try" as much as I could have?
    That would be for you to decide in hindsight.

    As far as I understand Nancy's plan, she would be raising standards across the board, not just on admissions. So if people are "smart enough" to get in, and then coast and burn, they don't make it.

    I am not saying UC should have the same standards as a Harvard, but it should have higher standards than a St. X.
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  4. #333
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Anyone go to the Rally at Willies?

    I couldn't make it due to other plans, and I really wish I could have. Somebody please be my eyes and ears.

    What I saw on the news and the classiness of Bob Huggins and the things he said was truely something great.

    He will be missed.

  5. #334
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    No, college isn't truly for everyone. But state schools such as UC have to be in a position to accept students that wouldn't get into private schools that have higher standards for admissions.
    There's tiers of state schools though. For instance, I've got a lot of family in Pennsylvania and, from what I'm told, not just anyone gets a "Welcome to Happy Valley" letter in the Quaker State.

    Penn State is the at the top of the Pennsylvania state school food chain. It wants the best students it can find. UC-Berkeley is the same sort of deal. UVA rules the roost in Virginia. I went to grad school at a second-tier state school there (James Madison). It was still a fine institution and I got a good education, but UVA's the prestige institution.

    It sounds like UC's been marching up the food chain for a few decades, that it wants to be regarded as being among the better public institutions. IMO, there's nothing wrong with that. Someone has to be that school and over the course of time it will be a huge asset to the city if it can fill that role.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but UC never was a community college, was it? It's always been selective about who it admits, right? If so, then it's just a matter of UC finding its place in the larger college education mix. UC's not going to be the right spot for everyone and it shouldn't try to be.

    And again, the standards that have been mentioned in this thread are not particularly high standards. If I had a 1000 SAT and ranked in the 75th percentile of my graduating class, there's little chance I'd have been accepted to my main state school.
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  6. #335
    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    There's tiers of state schools though. For instance, I've got a lot of family in Pennsylvania and, from what I'm told, not just anyone gets a "Welcome to Happy Valley" letter in the Quaker State.

    Penn State is the at the top of the Pennsylvania state school food chain. It wants the best students it can find. UC-Berkeley is the same sort of deal. UVA rules the roost in Virginia. I went to grad school at a second-tier state school there (James Madison). It was still a fine institution and I got a good education, but UVA's the prestige institution.

    It sounds like UC's been marching up the food chain for a few decades, that it wants to be regarded as being among the better public institutions. IMO, there's nothing wrong with that. Someone has to be that school and over the course of time it will be a huge asset to the city if it can fill that role.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but UC never was a community college, was it? It's always been selective about who it admits, right? If so, then it's just a matter of UC finding its place in the larger college education mix. UC's not going to be the right spot for everyone and it shouldn't try to be.

    And again, the standards that have been mentioned in this thread are not particularly high standards. If I had a 1000 SAT and ranked in the 75th percentile of my graduating class, there's little chance I'd have been accepted to my main state school.
    I hear what you're saying, and I don't necessarily disagree. But having grown up in Cincinnati, UC has just always been a college that people who live here end up at. I know it has some really great schools within it's campus, but in general it's just ... well ... UC. Does that make sense? It's never been a community college, no. But it is a huge commuter college. Lots of kids from around here end up going to UC.

    I don't know if it's always been selective about who it admits. I don't know anyone personally who has ever been rejected by UC, but that obviously doesn't mean the school doesn't turn people away.

    I guess I've just never viewed UC as a bad school in the first place. I've never thought of it as a school that has low standards. I've thought of it like I think of most state schools -- somewhat reasonably priced, somewhat easy to get into, and a place you can get a good education. So maybe I just don't understand this push to make it more "academic," because I haven't ever really thought it wasn't academic in the first place. I considered going there, but decided I wanted to go away for college.

    Overall, I guess I just worry that a lot of public universities are getting more selective, and certainly more expensive, and I don't know where it will stop. College is already hard to pay for, for most people, and when you couple the costs with rising admission standards ... well, I just hope there are still some good schools out there that remain reasonable 10 years from now.

  7. #336
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    There's tiers of state schools though. For instance, I've got a lot of family in Pennsylvania and, from what I'm told, not just anyone gets a "Welcome to Happy Valley" letter in the Quaker State.

    Penn State is the at the top of the Pennsylvania state school food chain. It wants the best students it can find. UC-Berkeley is the same sort of deal. UVA rules the roost in Virginia. I went to grad school at a second-tier state school there (James Madison). It was still a fine institution and I got a good education, but UVA's the prestige institution.

    It sounds like UC's been marching up the food chain for a few decades, that it wants to be regarded as being among the better public institutions. IMO, there's nothing wrong with that. Someone has to be that school and over the course of time it will be a huge asset to the city if it can fill that role.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but UC never was a community college, was it? It's always been selective about who it admits, right? If so, then it's just a matter of UC finding its place in the larger college education mix. UC's not going to be the right spot for everyone and it shouldn't try to be.

    And again, the standards that have been mentioned in this thread are not particularly high standards. If I had a 1000 SAT and ranked in the 75th percentile of my graduating class, there's little chance I'd have been accepted to my main state school.

    Well you have to understand that many of the colleges at UC have individual academic standards. There's some programs that a 4.0, 30+ ACT won't guarentee you acceptance (i.e. architecture).

    Also, UC has direct admissions to all their programs and while their admissions standards might not be as high as comperable programs around the country, the retention rate is much lower. I swear the college of engineering's philosophy is "bring as many as we can in, weed as many as we can out".

    But to answer your question about the community college M2, I don't think UC has ever been selective when it comes to admissions on the university-wide scale. If you weren't directly admitted into one of the colleges, you went to University College (similar to a community college atmosphere) but the graduation rate for UCollege students was abysmal so they did away with it a few years ago. But as far as I know, it has never been a community college.
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  8. #337
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Bob Goin supports Bob Huggins
    Posted By: Keith Wedinger
    August 26, 2005
    The following article comes from an athletic department employee who wanted to remain anonymous.

    What nobody has caught on in this whole thing is that Bob Goin has resigned as athletic director because of this. He said it the other night at the football event and then repeated it to the athletic department staff shortly after that.

    Bob had intended to retire at the end of next June, which would have allowed him not only to go through the first season in the Big East but also move into the new offices in Varsity Village. It would have been the culmination of two of Bob's biggest accomplishments.

    Instead, Bob has asked the president to speed up the search to find his replacement so that this person is in place by the end of the year. He has also told the athletic department staff that if the media continues to paint him as the bad guy in this that he will leave sooner.

    What people don't understand about Bob Goin is that he is very old school. As athletic director, he respects the people he works for -- the president and Board of Trustees -- and is obligated to do what they want.

    I guarantee you that he was dying on the inside when he was sitting at that press conference the other night. There is nobody -- NOBODY -- that Bob Goin would fight harder for than Bob Huggins and to see him go down like this absolutely killed him. That is why he asked that they find his replacement sooner (it also would have been out of character for Bob to resign effective immediately -- he doesn't do things like that).

    Nobody fought harder for Bob Huggins in this matter than Bob Goin. Unfortunately, the decisions were made well above Goin's head and he could do nothing about it.

    When Huggins was picked up for the DUI, it was Goin who put himself on the line to keep him on the job. It was Goin who pissed off Zimpher by being too nice at the Saturday morning press conference, forcing Zimpher to later clarify the terms of Huggins' suspension (remember, they took away his car, cell phone, etc. and forbid him to talk to any UC employee -- that was all Zimpher).

    Goin almost got fired for that stunt. Zimpher wasn't going to let Goin get away with anything again.

    Bearcat fans can thank Bob Goin for the last eight years (or at least most of that time) of Bob Huggins at UC. For those who don't remember, when Goin came on board in 1997, the athletic department was in complete dissarray following the Gerald O'Dell debacle, the basketball program was headed towards probation because of infractions that were mostly made up (or at least greatly inflated) and Huggins had one foot out the door.

    Goin's relationship with Huggins kept him here and Huggins responded to Goin's leadership positively. Goin is responsible for pushing Huggins to make changes within the program, doing so in a such a manner to make Huggins look good, even when something bad happened.

    Do you want to know why the graduation rate has improved? Bob Goin

    Do you want to know why the players who have stepped out of line the last few years have been disciplined? Bob Goin

    Do you know why Huggins didn't leave for the NBA or West Virginia? Bob Goin

    Do you want to know why UC is now in the Big East? Bob Goin

    Do you want to know why UC is on the verge of having athletic facilities that compare to any other school in the country? Bob Goin

    I personally mourn the early departure of Bob Goin because it will be a loss that will be impossible for UC to overcome. UC can find another skilled coach like Huggins to take over the reigns of the basketball program because Huggs has brought it to a level that made it a very desired position.

    Where is UC going to find an administrator with the experience, skill and ability that Goin has? There aren't many people out there now. Most AD's are the slick marketing type who shake your hand with their right hand and stick a knife in your back with the left. It won't be pretty.

    When Bob Goin came to UC, nobody wanted the position. Bad football, hot-head basketball coach, bad facilities, under-funded program and a bad president (well, now Steger didn't look that bad). UC only got Bob Goin because he had made a mistake (which he was later cleared of) and he needed a job.

    By the way, for those of you out there who are taking the shots about Goin accepting the free roof from the contractor who did work at FSU, please understand this. Goin's wife, Nancy, bid the roof job out and took the lowest price. Bob had nothing to do with it, until he found out that there might be an ethics problem. Who turned the possible violation in? It was Goin. FSU then jumped to get rid of him (mostly because of the Foot Locker fiasco), not waiting to see what the outcome of the ethics hearing would be (again, he was later cleared).

    The loss of Bob Huggins is understandably very hard for Bearcat fans to accept. What they don't understand is that the loss of Bob Goin is going to be even worse.




    From bearcatnews.com

  9. #338
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    A player's perspective:

    A Cold Day In August
    Posted By: Alex Meacham
    alex@bearcatnews.com
    August 23, 2005
    It was a cold December night, 1987. My father Bob and I are walking up to the Cincinnati Gardens. UC is playing Virginia Tech. Bimbo Coles was VT's star and they had a very good team that season. My father and I were two of 1,368 fans in the stands.

    It was a cold December night, 1992. My father Bob and I are walking up to The Shoemaker Center. UC is playing Memphis State. Penny Hardaway was Memphis State's star and they had a very good team that season. My father and I were two of 13,176 fans in the stands.

    There is one difference between that 1987 and 1992 game. . .BOB HUGGINS! He pumped life into the basketball program, the University and this city.

    Dr. Zimpher stated at Tuesday's press conference that UC|21 is underway. The whole University is being asked to raise the bar. The wonderful thing that Zimpher is trying to do with the University, Huggins had already done.

    In 1989, Huggins took over a program that was down and out. By 1992 he had the team headed to the Final Four. He had raised the bar so that you can say the term "UC|21".

    The board chairman reportedly has a DUI on his record and is apparently being investigated for tax fraud. Let's raise the bar for our Board of Trustees!

    Jason Maxiell has turned out to be one of the finest young men and basketball players this University has ever produced. Under some of the new UC|21 guidelines Maxiell wouldn't be allowed to wear a basketball uniform. He is now a proud graduate, good citizen and employee of the NBA.

    Eric Hicks came to UC rough around the edges. The President and the Board do not see Hicks as a good representative of the University. But yet this summer he represented our country as a member of the Olympic basketball team.

    Every company, business or institution must have a leader with a vision. Dr. Zimpher has a vision. The problem is, it is the wrong one for this university's athletic department. Dr. Zimpher, Bob Goin and the Board of Trustee's have destroyed a family.

    It was a cold December night 1999. This time I was walking into the Shoemaker Center by
    myself. I was no longer one of 13,176 in the stands. I was one of twelve players on the bench.

    Coach Huggins gave me a chance to be a walk-on player. This lead me to write a book on my experience playing for the Bearcats. That experience then lead me to start a non-profit organization working with kids, teaching them the game of life through basketball.

    Thank you Coach Huggins for all that you have done for me and the city of Cincinnati.

    I never thought there would be a cold day in August. But, today the face of UC basketball has been changed forever.

    Alex Meacham
    Former Walk-On 1997-2000
    Author "Walk Of A Lifetime"
    Co President, Shining Star Sports


    From bearcatnews.com

  10. #339
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    If Goin was leaving anyway, he should have stepped up to the plate and voiced his disapproval for Princess Nancy's decision. He wouldn't have been the lone man standing, I bet others would have rallied around him, including students and alumni. He sold Huggs down the river to the wicked witch of Clifton.

    Goin did a lot for UC no doubt, but when his program needed his help the most, he failed.
    Last edited by Reds4Life; 08-26-2005 at 04:44 PM.
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    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds4Life
    wicked witch of Clifton.
    I prefer "Dictator of Clifton".

    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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  12. #341
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Did you see the list of coaches being floated around? Ugh, it's horrible. Frickin' Pete Gillen and Fran Dunphy are on the list.

    Word is Bob Knight would like to return to the midwest. His players have a very high graduation rate, and he's a proven winner. Plus..................then we can sell tickets to the Knight v. Zimpher cage match. I can see The General beating Nancy with her own broomstick.
    Pessimists are well informed optimists

  13. #342
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds4Life
    If Goin was leaving anyway, he should have stepped up to the plate and voiced his disapproval for Princess Nancy's decision. He wouldn't have been the lone man standing, I bet others would have rallied around him, including students and alumni. He sold Huggs down the river to the wicked witch of Clifton.

    Goin did a lot for UC no doubt, but when his program needed his help the most, he failed.
    And he would have probably got fired too. Not a smart move for a guy of Goin's age to do that. I believe that he wanted Huggins and was against this sacking. But I bet Huggins would have told him not to quit. God knows who she would have got to replace Goin.
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  14. #343
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    It just came down. Goin is stepping down as of Jan 1st and will take another job in the University for the remaining 6 months of his tenure

  15. #344
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    And he would have probably got fired too. Not a smart move for a guy of Goin's age to do that. I believe that he wanted Huggins and was against this sacking. But I bet Huggins would have told him not to quit. God knows who she would have got to replace Goin.
    He better be a Prince. Oh wait, her people don't have to be...nevermind

  16. #345
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    Re: UC to Huggins: Resign or be fired

    I like Andy Kennedy, but he's getting the same screw job Huggins did. Think about it, how can he recruit with a 1 year deal? He can't. I doubt he'll even be able to do some nice damage control given his limited time here. Nancy didn't even bother to show up for his introduction today, even though she was in town. Pretty low class and petty IMO.

    If Andy wins in the Big East, and since he's a former Huggins assistant, he'll likely have fan support. Is Zimpher going to put us through this AGAIN and fire a popular coach? Honestly, I think he's the best we can get. I know peope are floating some big names out there (Prosser, Knight, etc) but why on earth would these guys come here? Big time coaches aren't going to put up with Nancy involving herself in the program on a constant basis. Coaches want to WIN, and if she's going to handcuff this program to the point where it's going to be the doormat of the Big East she can forget about getting anyone worth a damn. I think Mick Cronin would be a great choice, excellent recruiter, knows the system well and would have fan support. But, given his connections to Bob I doubt he'd pass the white glove test.
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