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Thread: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

  1. #16
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

    I'd like to know how clean it is to produce and whether Montana would turn into a giant hole in order to get the coal. If it can be produced as cleanly (or cleaner than) oil-based gas and it doesn't require a large footprint of land to extract the coal (and that you don't have to go into a federally-protected wilderness to get it), then I think it would be a viable interim solution between oil and clean fuels.

    Rojo, I agree wholeheartedly about the "man in the moon" energy policy. IMO that should have been the main focus of our 9/11 reaction.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #17
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Could it be worse then Oil drilling?
    One problem you have with any natural resource extraction is what you have to trample to get to and from the place where it resides. You've also got the air pollution created by the machinery needed to do the work. That's probably even with oil and coal.

    Oil, being a liquid and all, tends to spill, leak and run. It creates a water problem, both in bodies of water and in the water table.

    Yet oil extraction allows you punch a hole in the earth and keep your footprint small. Coal often involves strip mining and that means cleaving huge chunks out of the earth.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  4. #18
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Could it be worse then Oil drilling?
    Yeah. We're talking about excavating huge tracts of land, tunneling, etc. I can see where it would do more harm to the environment then drilling. And that is not even considering the impact the process to convert it to gas MIGHT have.

    And what about the safety/hazards to those who are excavating this stuff? Talk to any WV coal miner about black lung and various other health risks.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  5. #19
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

    Non-sense GAC. When will you liberals learn. The wind blows west to east. So the only areas will be affected would be Ohio and the rest of the liberal states.

  6. #20
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    Re: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    then I think it would be a viable interim solution between oil and clean fuels.
    That, however, might be wishful thinking. The combination of high gas prices, the war and 9/11 has resulted in a lot of people -- economic nationalists, clean air advocates, and just people concerned with maintaining their way of life -- advocating renewable energy sources.

    But with $3/gallon gas, a whole slate of non-renewable energy sources becomes viable: coal, tar sands, ethanol, other petroleum sources, etc... If people become used to high gas prices, and we can cut our energy imports, I fear that we will get lazy again, draw down our fossil fuels once again and continue polluting the environment.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  7. #21
    Member Red Heeler's Avatar
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    Re: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted
    Congress pulled the big $$$ ethanol subsidies out of the budget a few years ago. Even subsidized, ethanol was little more than an expensive additive to stretch gasoline. Using it in quantities greater than 10 percent requires retuning engines. Perhaps a modern computerized engine could be retuned at the flick of a few computer "switches?"
    Nearly all of the major auto manufacturers offer flex fuel engines in some of their vehicles. Most people don't know about them because they are only available to fleet buyers. Flex fuel engines can run on anything from pure gasoline to 80% ethanol.

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered
    It requires more energy to produce than it saves.
    There is one paper supporting this idea done quite a while ago which was authored by an economist (IIRC) who recieved major funding by the oil industry. In a nutshell, the paper is full faulty assumptions.

    On the other hand, the ethanol industry has quite a number of studies that show that it is a viable fuel source. Obviously, these studies are subject to bias as well. The truth most likely lies somewhere in the middle.

    Biodiesel is another alternative fuel that holds a lot of promise. It is made through the chemical alteration of vegitable oils. A standard diesel engine can run on anything from pure fossil diesel to pure biodiesel. While the current focus is on grain crop oils, there is research into oil producing algae which can produce a very large volume of oil in a small amount of land.

  8. #22
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Montana Coal: Potential Solution to Energy Crisis?

    Economics aside, ethanol has been used as a gas additive alternative to MTBE, a substance so toxic and pernicious it should be banned from the planet.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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