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Thread: Ahhh, the oil companies

  1. #16
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Piergallini
    According to ExxonMobil's 10-Q, they reported NET INCOME of 15.5 billion up 4.27 billion from the same time period last year.

    2.44 per share, up .72 per share from same time period last year.

    Hey, they gotta help their shareholders, don't they?
    Yea, its a little hard raising money to run a company without giving shareholders a benefit. I imagine you volunteer your human resources to your company? You put money in a bank and don't want them to pay interest?
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  3. #17
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    I'm sorry, but when I read stuff like this, and then have to go pay $3.15/gallon to fuel my car (as I did last night) it makes my stomach churn.

    Taken from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072802085.html

    Profit Soars at Exxon Mobil
    Surging Oil Prices Lead to Company's Best Second Quarter

    By Joe Carroll
    Bloomberg News
    Friday, July 29, 2005; Page D02

    Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, said yesterday that second-quarter profit rose 32 percent, to $7.64 billion, as Asia and North America used more crude oil and gasoline.

    The quarterly profit was the third-highest in the company's history. Revenue climbed 25 percent, to $88.57 billion, Exxon said. A doubling of oil prices since 2003 has put the Irving, Tex.-based company on a pace to surpass Wal-Mart Stores Inc. this year as the largest U.S. company by total revenue.

    Profit from worldwide oil and natural gas exploration and production operations jumped 28 percent, to $4.91 billion. Production decreased 4.3 percent, to 3.91 million barrels a day.

    The gap between crude oil costs and prices for refined fuels was the widest ever, as consumption rose faster than supplies. Exxon's refining and marketing profit rose 34 percent, to $2.02 billion, mostly outside the United States.

    Exxon chief executive Lee R. Raymond is investing in oil and gas fields in Africa and the Middle East as demand grows and output declines from older wells in Europe and North America.

    Soaring demand for gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and chemicals helped boost U.S. crude oil futures to a second-quarter average of $53.22 a barrel.

    Exxon Mobil and other oil companies may benefit from $2.6 billion in subsidies in the energy bill that is nearing passage in Congress. The subsidies, designed to encourage domestic oil and gas production, were part of an oil industry "wish list," according to David Hamilton, the Sierra Club's energy programs director.

    About two-thirds of Exxon's profit comes from oil and gas production.

    Royal Dutch Shell PLC, the world's third-largest publicly traded oil company, said yesterday that second-quarter profit rose 34 percent, to $5.24 billion. BP PLC, the second-largest, said on July 26 that profit rose 29 percent, to $5.59 billion.

    ConocoPhillips, the third-largest U.S. oil company, said Wednesday that profit rose 51 percent, to $3.14 billion. Chevron Corp., the No. 2 U.S. oil company, is scheduled to announce second-quarter results today.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  4. #18
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Yea, its a little hard raising money to run a company without giving shareholders a benefit. I imagine you volunteer your human resources to your company? You put money in a bank and don't want them to pay interest?
    Well, let's just say there's offering benefits to shareholders, and there's offering benefits to shareholders.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  5. #19
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Again, reg, don't be misled by real $ increases. The actual bottom lines, after taxes, were flat compared to the prior year. If you just talk % increases using dollars, you realize that if you made $2 this year and only $1 last year, your income just increased 100%. So does that make you rich?

    Again, direct your anger at OPEC, not our domestic producers. OPEC are the fat cats making money hand over fist, and have been for years.
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  6. #20
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    I worked in the petroleum business for quite some time. When you think about the way that the prices of other products have inflated over the years, (milk, orange juice, etc.) and then you consider gasoline and the process of refining the crude as compared to the process of getting other products to market, you might realize that the price of gasoline isn't all that bad. Matter of fact, it's been a bargain for a real long time. While I too complain about the recent high prices, compared to other nations, we don't have it that bad when it comes to the price of gasoline. I think the American people feel they are entitled to gasoline at a low price.

    FYI, as of this morning, there were nearly 40 gas stations in the Charlotte area without gasoline, and the condition here probably won't get a lot better until after Labor Day. Citizens of the area are being urged not to travel if they don't absolutely have to.
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  7. #21
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Again, reg, don't be misled by real $ increases. The actual bottom lines, after taxes, were flat compared to the prior year. If you just talk % increases using dollars, you realize that if you made $2 this year and only $1 last year, your income just increased 100%. So does that make you rich?

    Again, direct your anger at OPEC, not our domestic producers. OPEC is the fat cats making money hand over fist, and have been for years.
    I'm angry at both, TR. OPEC wields a significant amount of power, no doubt. But I'm not misinterpreting the numbers for Exxon. They are poised to surpasse WAL-MART, of all companies. I'm sorry, but when I see things like that, and I see the government handing out $2.6 BILLION in incentives to the oil companies, it boggles my mind.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  8. #22
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC
    I worked in the petroleum business for quite some time. When you think about the way that the prices of other products have inflated over the years, (milk, orange juice, etc.) and then you consider gasoline and the process of refining the crude as compared to the process of getting other products to market, you might realize that the price of gasoline isn't all that bad. Matter of fact, it's been a bargain for a real long time. While I too complain about the recent high prices, compared to other nations, we don't have it that bad when it comes to the price of gasoline. I think the American people feel they are entitled to gasoline at a low price.
    I don't disagree with this. It's not the prices that gall me nearly as much as the $2.6 billion kickback. I find it borderline infuriating.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  9. #23
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Traderumor,
    No I don't volunteer my services. I work in a bank. Dividends paid out are taken from Retained Earnings.

    Out of that 2.44 net income per common share, the dividends paid to shareholders was .56 per share. Exxon is currently trading at 61.60 per share.

    Buy 10 shares of it. It will cost you 616. DIvidends delclared quarterly would amount to about 12 bucks. Not worth it unless this stock price continues to rise., which looks very likely, then it would be a good investment.

    Companies can find other means of finding funds other that gouging its customers. Borrowing funds at low rates is a possibility. They most likely also have investments which provides, depending on the size of their portfolio, good returns.
    Madness is like gravity....all it needs is a little push.

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  10. #24
    Joe Oliver love-child Blimpie's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Here's what I don't get (to expound on what sava said), why did the price of gasoline at the pump go up yesterday?

    Katrina has caused all kind of problems for all kinds of industries, but you didn't seem that immediately speculated upon and passed onto the consumer. For instance, you could have bought Zatarin's rice mixes for it pre-Katrina prices even though Zatarin's may not be able to produce rice mixes for quite some time. Why? Because the retailer had already paid for it and tacked on its markup.

    So why doesn't gasoline follow the same model? After all, your local filling station paid a fixed price for the gasoline it sells you. It didn't suddenly pay more for gasoline between noon and 6 p.m. yesterday. Of course your local filling station doesn't determine its prices. It gets the prices dictated from the corporate level and those prices fluctuate in a manner that adheres neither to logic nor the principle of consumer fairness. That this is legal baffles me.
    Yesterday, I was told the following by a guy who works at the MAP (Marathon Ashland Petroleum) refinery that is located in Cattlesburg, KY: The rise in yesterday's gas price "at the pumps" was based soley upon speculation by the refineries of impending reduction in their individual allotments of crude. Basically, due to the pipeline disruptions in the Gulf, the refineries were told not to expect any new sizeable shipments of crude in the next few days.

    Thus, in anticipation of much a smaller volume of crude to refine, MAP actually began sending some of it's workers home earlier than normal yesterday. MAP corporate office sends word down the distribution chain(s) that retailers should not expect to have their normal daily gas--and more specifically--diesel fuel shipments until later this week.

    MAP workers who were sent home early start spreading the word of a "gas shortage" and "gas rationing" at nearby stations, and wham! Everybody rushes to fill up yesterday to get a full tank "ahead of the shortage."

    Hello, Supply...I'd like you to meet Demand. Now, gas stations begin to fear that--with all of the rush of fillups--that they have to yield higher margins in a shorter time period in order to cushion the blow during the days when they have no gas or fuel to sell. Those days are especially brutal because that is when they get killed on their residual sales, like: lottery tickets, potato chips, cigarettes and beer. Well, maybe not the latter two items. The demand for those items are pretty much inelastic--but you get my drift.

    Nothing about yesterday's gas/fuel spike really seems fair to John Q. Public, but I really don't think the independent gas station owner is really being vindictive or greedy. IMO, we will see a little relief at the pumps...but not until after the holiday weekend is over.
    Last edited by Blimpie; 09-01-2005 at 04:05 PM.
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  11. #25
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Blimpie
    Nothing about yesterday's gas/fuel spike really seems fair to John Q. Public, but I really don't think the independent gas station owner is really being vindictive or greedy. IMO, we will see a little relief at the pumps...but not until after the holiday weekend is over.
    No, I htink this is an important distinction. I don't fault the gas staion owners themselves at all--they're simply doing what they can to survive. I fault both the OPEC nations and the mega-oil companies for this current mess that we have.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  12. #26
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    I'm angry at both, TR. OPEC wields a significant amount of power, no doubt. But I'm not misinterpreting the numbers for Exxon. They are poised to surpasse WAL-MART, of all companies. I'm sorry, but when I see things like that, and I see the government handing out $2.6 BILLION in incentives to the oil companies, it boggles my mind.
    And the oil companies can stand on the leg that the incentives will benefit you by enabling more domestic production and less dependence of foreign oil. Where I would hold their feet to the fire is by seeing results, such as higher output (higher percentage of our oil usage being domestice) and lower prices for all products that derive from the industry. If the incentives overall better our economy through lower prices, more jobs, etc., then they are worth it, IMO.

    As far as Wal-Mart comparisons, keep in mind that's a comparison of revenues, not the bottom line.
    Can't win with 'em

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  13. #27
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Blimpie
    Yesterday, I was told the following by a guy who works at the MAP (Marathon Ashland Petroleum) refinery that is located in Cattlesburg, KY: The rise in yesterday's gas price "at the pumps" was based soley upon speculation by the refineries of impending reduction in their individual allotments of crude. Basically, due to the pipeline disruptions in the Gulf, the refineries were told not to expect any new sizeable shipments of crude in the next few days.

    Thus, in anticipation of much a smaller volume of crude to refine, MAP actually began sending some of it's workers home earlier than normal yesterday. MAP corporate office sends word down the distribution chain(s) that retailers should not expect to have their normal daily gas--and more specifically--diesel fuel shipments until later this week.

    MAP workers who were sent home early start spreading the word of a "gas shortage" and "gas rationing" at nearby stations, and wham! Everybody rushes to fill up yesterday to get a full tank "ahead of the shortage."

    Hello, Supply...I'd like you to meet Demand. Now, gas stations begin to fear that--with all of the rush of fillups--that they have to yield higher margins in a shorter time period in order to cushion the blow during the days when they have no gas or fuel to sell. Those days are especially brutal because that is when they get killed on their residual sales, like: lottery tickets, potato chips, cigarettes and beer. Well, maybe not the latter two items. The demand for those items are pretty much inelastic--but you get my drift.

    Nothing about yesterday's gas/fuel spike really seems fair to John Q. Public, but I really don't think the independent gas station owner is really being vindictive or greedy. IMO, we will see a little relief at the pumps...but not until after the holiday weekend is over.
    You are right on the money. Most of these station owners aren't making much money on the gasoline sales. They are making pennies on the gallon and the jobbers are not making much either, particularly when the price is going up. They make their money when the price at the terminal starts to drop, and they hold the prices up for a few days to make a little money. The majors are making the bulk of the money on the gas. Where the station owners are hurt is on the sale of the "inside the store" items as you so aptly pointed out. Gas is the draw to get the customer inside the store. Most of the station owners hate the pay at the pump concept, because it keeps people out of the store and the credit card fees eat at what little profit they make on the gasoline.
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    They don't need 2.6 billion in incentives. They seem to be doing fine on their own. But since they are getting it, traderumor is right, they better show some return on investment for the government. They better enhance refining, find new ways to make it more cost efficient for all parties involved and find a way to not rely on the Saudi's.

    The way I understand it is that we used to get all of the oil from the saudi's. So, if they had 100 million barrells, we would get it at a reasonable price. Well, now, the Chinese need 70 million barrells, you get into a bidding war for the oil.
    Madness is like gravity....all it needs is a little push.

    Why so serious?

  15. #29
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    This may open some eyes and open up the drilling in Alaska and more domestic off-shore drilling. They have the technology to do it without messing up the environment. That argument is very "tired" in my opinion.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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  16. #30
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    Re: Ahhh, the oil companies

    That argument is very "tired" in my opinion.
    The past week has been a testament to what happens when you mess with the enviroment.


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