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Thread: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

  1. #16
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Blimpie
    This crisis did not evolve in a vacuum. Bush was not sitting at a table staring at two buttons. One saying, "Save Lives," while the other said "Save Your Approval Rating." I realize that hindsight is always 20/20, but my God--some of you people must be walking around with X-Ray vision.

    Just within that one NY Times article, look at the sheer number of agencies that were involved in the coordination efforts and decision making processes. Justice Department, Homeland Security, Pentagon, etc...were all asked to provide their guidance on the Federal level which was actually the root of the problem. That's not even mentioning the input that was flying around from three different State and several different Local governments.

    Anybody who has read the posts by RFS during the last week or so should conclude the same thing. The Katrina tragedy did not occur last week, but it occurred four years ago when FEMA was restructured after 9-11 and, basically, absorbed by Homeland. That was the worst possible thing that could happen to an already bloated Federal agency.

    By designating state and local entities to become first-responders in a crisis, they thought that they were giving the communities what they wanted in the way of strategic flexiblities and streamlined efficiencies. The problem was that not all localities are capable of doing things the "Federal" way of things. That's probably a good thing in most instances, but in this case, the results were tragic. Since several of the posters on this thread have the innate ability to use hindsight skills as a strategic weapon of choice, I have a question for them:

    Now, try to be honest. How capable are you in the art of foresight? I am just curious where some of you might have been on this crucial issue of FEMA restructuring four years ago? I'll bet some of you were either: 1) all for the idea or 2) had no idea it even occurred. Did anybody who was a member of this board jump on their soapboxes back then and decry the fact that FEMA was, at that time, essentially being asked to evolve into a more bureaucratic entity after 9-11? If so, please link me the thread. I will have nothing but mad props for you. But if all you are doing is being a Monday Morning Quarterback (and you know who you are), please just save it.
    I, probably like a majoriy of Americans, am a #2 - had no idea it even occurred.

    Excellent post too.

    And correct me if I'm wrong; but isn't FEMA mainly setup to deal with the aftermath of natural disasters and not preemptive? I was pretty sure that was what rfs was telling me, and he has work for/dealt with FEMA for years and years.
    Last edited by GAC; 09-09-2005 at 04:19 PM.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Blimpie
    This crisis did not evolve in a vacuum. Bush was not sitting at a table staring at two buttons. One saying, "Save Lives," while the other said "Save Your Approval Rating." I realize that hindsight is always 20/20, but my God--some of you people must be walking around with X-Ray vision.

    Just within that one NY Times article, look at the sheer number of agencies that were involved in the coordination efforts and decision making processes. Justice Department, Homeland Security, Pentagon, etc...were all asked to provide their guidance on the Federal level which was actually the root of the problem. That's not even mentioning the input that was flying around from three different State and several different Local governments.

    Anybody who has read the posts by RFS during the last week or so should conclude the same thing. The Katrina tragedy did not occur last week, but it occurred four years ago when FEMA was restructured after 9-11 and, basically, absorbed by Homeland. That was the worst possible thing that could happen to an already bloated Federal agency.

    By designating state and local entities to become first-responders in a crisis, they thought that they were giving the communities what they wanted in the way of strategic flexiblities and streamlined efficiencies. The problem was that not all localities are capable of doing things the "Federal" way of things. That's probably a good thing in most instances, but in this case, the results were tragic. Since several of the posters on this thread have the innate ability to use hindsight skills as a strategic weapon of choice, I have a question for them:

    Now, try to be honest. How capable are you in the art of foresight? I am just curious where some of you might have been on this crucial issue of FEMA restructuring four years ago? I'll bet some of you were either: 1) all for the idea or 2) had no idea it even occurred. Did anybody who was a member of this board jump on their soapboxes back then and decry the fact that FEMA was, at that time, essentially being asked to evolve into a more bureaucratic entity after 9-11? If so, please link me the thread. I will have nothing but mad props for you. But if all you are doing is being a Monday Morning Quarterback (and you know who you are), please just save it.
    All Bush had to do when he saw the extent of the damage was, within hours, declare that he'd have the head of whoever stood in the way of rescue.

    BTW, you've set up a false dilemma, your little "two buttons" that Bush could push scenario. That's not at all the number of options he had in front of him. All he had to do was say, "Do it. Now. No excuses." Instead, he "assessed." Why? That's all I want to know.

    And for the record, FEMA was restructured under a Republican President and bicameral Republican-majority in Congress.

  4. #18
    Joe Oliver love-child Blimpie's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    I, probably like a majoriy of Americans, am a #2 - had no idea it even occurred.

    Excellent post too.

    And correct me if I'm wrong; but isn't FEMA mainly setup to deal with the aftermath of natural disasters and not preemptive? I was pretty sure that was what rfs was telling me, and he has work for/dealt with FEMA for years and years.
    RFS is infinitely more qualified to answer that question than am I. The link that I did in an earlier post regarding the various Brown leaks (on SmokingGun.com) will give you a snapshot of the sheer volume of red tape that the agency is choking on at this day and age.

    Here's the same link again:

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0907051fema1.html
    "Booing on opening day is like telling grandma her house smells like old lady."--WOY

  5. #19
    Joe Oliver love-child Blimpie's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    All Bush had to do when he saw the extent of the damage was, within hours, declare that he'd have the head of whoever stood in the way of rescue.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this and pray that Brown is not the last of the "heads" to roll. But to say that Bush needs to add his head to that list of sacrificial lambs serves no purpose IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    BTW, you've set up a false dilemma, your little "two buttons" that Bush could push scenario. That's not at all the number of options he had in front of him. All he had to do was say, "Do it. Now. No excuses." Instead, he "assessed." Why? That's all I want to know.
    That's my whole point, FCB. Katrina was an unprecedented and incredibly dynamic crisis sprinkled with constantly changing variables. I never said that he had but two choices, my issue was that some people on this board seem to be implying that it was precisely that cut and dry. Example:

    So President Bush refuses to do something to save lives because he is afraid of the political ramfications...
    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    And for the record, FEMA was restructured under a Republican President and bicameral Republican-majority in Congress.
    I never once implied that Democrats were responsible for these FEMA changes that occurred four years ago. The Katrina rescue debacle wasn't Dem vs. Rep mistake, this was a GOVERNMENT mistake. A government that was established by the people--for the people. We all failed those people in the Gulf...each and every one of us.
    "Booing on opening day is like telling grandma her house smells like old lady."--WOY

  6. #20
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Nice to see some clear-headed analysis of what went wrong in those articles. There's plenty of blame to go around.

    I just wonder how much longer "Brownie" would have been permitted to continue to do such a "great job" if this whole business about resumé inconsistencies hadn't reared its ugly head. I only hope that he doesn't get a pat on the head and a plane ride to the next federal emergency.
    /r/reds

  7. #21
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    I, probably like a majoriy of Americans, am a #2 - had no idea it even occurred.

    Excellent post too.

    And correct me if I'm wrong; but isn't FEMA mainly setup to deal with the aftermath of natural disasters and not preemptive? I was pretty sure that was what rfs was telling me, and he has work for/dealt with FEMA for years and years.
    According to the National Disaster recovery plan, DHS/FEMA can preemptively send out assets.
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  8. #22
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

    And for the record, FEMA was restructured under a Republican President and bicameral Republican-majority in Congress.
    The Dems controlled the 107th US Senate (50-49-1), but why bring those pesky facts into play

  9. #23
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking News: Michael Brown removed from managing Hurricane Katrina efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted
    Nice to see some clear-headed analysis of what went wrong in those articles. There's plenty of blame to go around.

    I just wonder how much longer "Brownie" would have been permitted to continue to do such a "great job" if this whole business about resumé inconsistencies hadn't reared its ugly head. I only hope that he doesn't get a pat on the head and a plane ride to the next federal emergency.
    Leave it to good old Time-Warner.

    Brown was totally out of his league in this job and it was pretty obvious from his "credentials." I imagine RFS62 could have some opinions on that. As in all administations, he'll probably show up somewhere else when the fire goes out. Hopefully, it will be in an area where quick thinking isn't required.

    Getting to work on time and wearing starched white shirts is nice, but hardly a requirement for getting a job done...
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