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Thread: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

  1. #16
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Most other teams have really good prospects. The Reds, oh well.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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  3. #17
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Chris Denorfia -- future leadoff man and starter, 4th outfielder, or bright future as a PTBNL on the back-end of a deal for middle relief pitching?

    Discuss amongst yourselves.

    Personally, I liked what I saw from Denorfia -- speed, a decent to above-average plate approach in his ABs (willingness to take a walk)...I didn't see enough of his defense to make any judgments, but I'd feel confident about having as the first man off the bench in the OF or as a pinch-runner in late game situations.
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    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    After losing game #3 (no Reds appeared), MESA WINS!

    12-2 over the Peoria Saguaros.

    http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/a...eswin_msswin_1

    Denorfia: 2-2, 3B, 3 RBI, 3 BB, CS
    Howard: 1-2, 2 R, HR (1), 2 RBI, 3 BB, throwing error
    Votto: 0-4, BB, K

    Muuuuuch better.
    Last edited by Doc. Scott; 10-09-2005 at 02:55 PM.

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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Chris Denorfia -- future leadoff man and starter, 4th outfielder, or bright future as a PTBNL on the back-end of a deal for middle relief pitching?
    I think he can play. Solid OBP offense, good defense, good speed. I like the fact he can play CF, too, which means if the Reds need to include Freel in a trade to get top quality pitching, they can do it and still have insurance behind Jr in center. Iwouldn't start him over Kearns or Pena, but I'd be comfortable with him starting if injuries/trades open a spot for him.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  6. #20
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Catching up:

    10/10: Mesa loses 5-3, with Luke Hudson (3 IP, 3 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 4 K) getting the L. Chris Denorfia was 0-for-4 with two Ks and an error, and Kevin Howard 1-for-4 with a double, run scored, and his second error in five games. Ryan Hanigan was 0-for-4 as the catcher.

    10/11: Mesa wins 9-2, thanks to a great starting pitching performance by the Yankees' Brian Burres. Bubba Nelson throws a scoreless inning in relief, allowing one hit, while Denorfia drives in three runs with a two-run single and groundout. He's hitting .278. The Cubs' Matt Murton popped a trio of doubles; he's now hitting .636.

    The Solar Sox are now 2-4.

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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    The best description I've heard about Chris Denorfia is that he's a Tracy Jones type player without the stubborn streak. This was from a long time Reds scout in Sarasota last February. I think Denorfia is a perfect 4th OF candidate in 2006 if the Reds finally trade somebody in that he compliments the others well. We had a guy like Denorfia a few years back, but he wasn't "toolsy" enough for the Jim Bowden regime. Brady Clark turned out to be a pretty good MLB player, and so will Denorfia.

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    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Hopefully Chris is also lacking the injury streak Tracy leveraged so well.

    And while Brady Clark's made a name for himself, you can't really fault the Reds for letting him go, given who they had at the time Clark became a PTBNL in the Shawn Estes deal. On paper, Brady didn't look like much next to Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns, Ken Griffey Jr., Juan Encarnacion, and Jose Guillen. That's enough tools for a Home Depot, and this was Jim Bowden doing the evaluations.

    --
    I am starting to lose patience with the way the Reds continue to push Luke Hudson as a starter. Hudson clearly doesn't have the mechanics and control necessary to start. I've thought he was a born power reliever from the first few starts he made (only two good pitches, lots of velocity), and I wish the club would just get on with it and let the guy fulfill his destiny.
    Last edited by Doc. Scott; 10-12-2005 at 11:13 AM.

  9. #23
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott

    --
    I am starting to lose patience with the way the Reds continue to push Luke Hudson as a starter. Hudson clearly doesn't have the mechanics and control necessary to start. I've thought he was a born power reliever from the first few starts he made (only two good pitches, lots of velocity), and I wish the club would just get on with it and let the guy fulfill his destiny.
    I seem to recall that was the intent when Luke was given his first chance before the labrum cost him 2003. Then, when he came back, they claimed he could not get warmed up fast enough to come out of the bullpen, so they made him a starter. He has a lucky six weeks, and the boneheads determine that he is a piece of the rotation puzzle (and I was one of the boneheads until M2 introduced me to BABIP and the cruel nature of that statistical phenomenon).

    I hope this doesn't sound too dehumanizing, but Luke's arm is gonna blow out again, especially if he kicks it up a notch in a late inning relief role, but he might be worth a flyer for a couple of good seasons out of the pen before his arm falls off again. But as a starter, forget about it, he just doesn't have the stuff.
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    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    I seem to recall that was the intent when Luke was given his first chance before the labrum cost him 2003. Then, when he came back, they claimed he could not get warmed up fast enough to come out of the bullpen, so they made him a starter. He has a lucky six weeks, and the boneheads determine that he is a piece of the rotation puzzle (and I was one of the boneheads until M2 introduced me to BABIP and the cruel nature of that statistical phenomenon).

    I hope this doesn't sound too dehumanizing, but Luke's arm is gonna blow out again, especially if he kicks it up a notch in a late inning relief role, but he might be worth a flyer for a couple of good seasons out of the pen before his arm falls off again. But as a starter, forget about it, he just doesn't have the stuff.
    I may be snatching at semantics, but "stuff" ain't the problem with Luke. He's still getting chances with this club because he has what most of the club's starting rotation lacks- a bona fide 93-94 mph fastball and a hammer curve, not an Eighty-Seven Express and Mahlerean slop. But with no reliable offspeed pitch (which was worth a try, but Don Gullett didn't do changeups and Vern Ruhle hasn't shown too much tangible in that department yet...yet) and yo-yo mechanics befitting that of a much younger pitcher, it's best for Luke and the club to concentrate on leveraging the strengths he does have rather than try and fix his weaknesses.

    Hudson's now 28 years old and post-major surgery. His strengths and weaknesses have likely stabilized by now, for good or ill. I'd love to see a Hudson/Wagner/Coffey 2006 trio of a Nasty sort (and maybe Joe Valentine will spend less time at the eyebrow waxer's and more time throwing strikes, too). Toss in Shackleford (who I don't think is as good as his numbers show, but he does seem to elude enough solid contact that he can be effective) and the veterans Mercker and Weathers and you've got a pretty darn solid bullpen. For the first time in a couple of years.

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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    I think Denorfia should be our 4th OF next year (Because we will deal some1... i hope) and will get a decent amount of ABs because someone is bound to get hurt. He is pretty solid defensively and seems to have good plate discipline. i think hes a guy who could make things very interesting the next few years because he'll force his way into the line up

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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    And while Brady Clark's made a name for himself, you can't really fault the Reds for letting him go, given who they had at the time Clark became a PTBNL in the Shawn Estes deal. On paper, Brady didn't look like much next to Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns, Ken Griffey Jr., Juan Encarnacion, and Jose Guillen. That's enough tools for a Home Depot, and this was Jim Bowden doing the evaluations.

    --
    Don't foget Ruben Mateo and Reggie Taylor. They were both higher on the depth chart than was Brady Clark!

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    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Don't foget Ruben Mateo and Reggie Taylor. They were both higher on the depth chart than was Brady Clark!
    Indeed they were. The poster boys for the double-edged tool, er, sword.

  14. #28
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    10/12: Mesa jobs like Barry Horowitz to Surprise, 10-1.

    Now I can start to see why San Francisco would divest themselves of their version of Ryan Wagner, David Aardsma. Aardsma, now a Cub, gives up six runs in a single inning (making it twelve ER in five and two-thirds) as the Solar Sox get bombed.

    Bubba Nelson pitches again (already?) and allows one hit in one scoreless inning. Allan Simpson makes his AFL debut and pitches 1.1 scoreless innings, walking one and allowing one hit, although several balls were hit very hard right at people.

    Chris Denorfia goes 2-for-4 with Mesa's lone RBI. Kevin Howard manages one hit in four trips as the DH; catcher Ryan Hanigan triples in three at-bats, but gets thrown out trying to make it an inside-the-parker. Joey Votto pinch-hits and plays first late in the game (0-for-1).

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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    Hopefully Chris is also lacking the injury streak Tracy leveraged so well.

    And while Brady Clark's made a name for himself, you can't really fault the Reds for letting him go, given who they had at the time Clark became a PTBNL in the Shawn Estes deal. On paper, Brady didn't look like much next to Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns, Ken Griffey Jr., Juan Encarnacion, and Jose Guillen. That's enough tools for a Home Depot, and this was Jim Bowden doing the evaluations.
    Also the Reds or any other team could have had him for a waiver claim fee twice because both the Mets and Brewers waived him the following year. None of the other teams thought that highly either.

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    Re: Arizona Fall League Report 10/4 - Nelson, Denorfia & Howard in action

    doc scott, do you know why votto does not play much? how is playing time distributed in the AFL?


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