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Thread: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

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    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    They were talking this morning on 1360 about a proposal that is being voted on in Kentucky that would separate the private schools from the public ones for post season tournaments and that there would be a state champion for each. Of course the angry guys were quite angry about this, and I can see why. Personally, I think this is wrong. For one, if I was back in high school and playing sports and I had the good fortune to win a state championship, I would want the satisfaction that my team was indeed the best team in the state. Also, it makes me wonder what is considered the primary purpose of high school to start with. They were saying that some of the public schools were complaining about not being able to compete with the private schools that are able to recruit. It seems rather lame to me. I hope this doesn't go through in Kentucky, because it could be an idea that would catch on in other states if it does. I can see some parents saying things like, "If it makes it easier for my little Johnny to win a state championship, then it's a good idea." I just don't think this is a good idea.

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    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    The problem is that public schools have set boundries from which they may draw their students, while private schools can recruit students from anywhere in the United States. Private schools can use offers of financial aid to attract athletes from public schools. Public schools must comply with Title IX rules requiring comparable treatment of boys' and girls' sports; single-gender private schools are not subject to such rules. Single-sex private schools such as Louisville's Trinity and St. Xavier, with about 1,400 boys each, have numbers no public school can match. What's fair about that?

    Private schools won 17 of 31 KHSAA championships last school year despite comprising only about 17 percent of the schools. I don't know if splitting the championships is the best solution, but something should be done to level the playing field.
    Last edited by macro; 10-20-2005 at 11:21 AM.

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by macro
    I don't know if splitting the championships is the best solution, but something should be done to level the playing field.
    I agree completely! There is nothing fair about schools who get students based on one certain geographical boundary vs. schools who can "recruit" from about 10 of those geographical boundaries combined.
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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Isn't this done in Illinois?
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    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    I've always thought it was a joke that public and private schools competed in the same leagues when the private schools have such an obvious advantage. Why not level the playing field?

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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by macro
    The problem is that public schools have set boundries from which they may draw their students, while private schools can recruit students from anywhere in the United States. Private schools can use offers of financial aid to attract athletes from public schools. Public schools must comply with Title IX rules requiring comparable treatment of boys' and girls' sports; single-gender private schools are not subject to such rules. Single-sex private schools such as Louisville's Trinity and St. Xavier, with about 1,400 boys each, have numbers no public school can match. What's fair about that?

    Private schools won 17 of 31 KHSAA championships last school year despite comprising only about 17 percent of the schools. I don't know if splitting the championships is the best solution, but something should be done to level the playing field.
    Very well said.

    I am not a fan of this proposal either. If anything, the KHSAA needs to crack down on private schools and kick out those who don't comply. I just think they fear an Oak Hill Academy emerging from the state.

    Its not just football either. Kentucky is a basketball crazy state, and people threw a fit when Lexington Catholic won state a couple years ago. I also saw it first hand when a small Christian school I attended in Ashland KY ended up with a 6'4 7th grader by the name of OJ Mayo.

    Something needs to be done, but putting public and private schools in their own field accomplishes nothing. If anything, it tells me that the KHSAA feels threatened to do anything, so they are just sweeping it under the rug.
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    I'm not sure if its the case in Kentucky, but here in Indiana the Catholic schools dominate all the smaller classes. They have all the advantages of being able to recruit, but don't have to play against the big schools.
    As much as people gripe about Catholic schools here. The top teams; Warren Central, Ben Davis, Penn, and Bloomington South(or at least they were a top team a few years ago) are all still public.

    In Ohio, I think a public school actually has an advantage if it can keep its own kids. EG Colerain kept its own kids while Moeller, St. X, Elder, and Lasalle dilluted all the other top players.
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    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    So does everybody think that the public schools never do any "recruiting"? Are top notch athletic prospects never encouraged to move to a certain neighborhood so they will be eligible to attend that school? Are there never cases where a kid lives with an uncle or grandparent or some other relative in that district just to meet the residency requirement to attend that school? I don't think that it's only the private schools that recruit. I'm not saying that the private schools are as pure as the driven snow either, but to say that the public schools are never guilty strikes me as rather naive.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Sure that goes on, but not near to the extent the private schools do.
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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Sure that goes on, but not near to the extent the private schools do.
    Don't know if I would say that, but private schools get away with it more.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Sure that goes on, but not near to the extent the private schools do.
    I don't know about that. Up here in Northeast Ohio, there are constant allegations of public schools poaching students from each other. Massillon, Jackson, and Canton McKinley are always being hit with claims of illegal recruiting, especially when some top athlete's parent mysteriously gets a job in one of those districts or they decide to live with their "aunt." Even when there is no actual "recruiting" going on, families who have kids with talent will move to a district with a good team. They want the exposure that goes with playing on a potential state champ because they hope that exposure will lead to college scholarships. I'm sure it goes on down in Cincinnati and Kentucky too. How many kids on the Colerain team grew up there and how many moved there right before high school?

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    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red
    I'm not sure if its the case in Kentucky, but here in Indiana the Catholic schools dominate all the smaller classes. They have all the advantages of being able to recruit, but don't have to play against the big schools.
    As much as people gripe about Catholic schools here. The top teams; Warren Central, Ben Davis, Penn, and Bloomington South(or at least they were a top team a few years ago) are all still public.

    In Ohio, I think a public school actually has an advantage if it can keep its own kids. EG Colerain kept its own kids while Moeller, St. X, Elder, and Lasalle dilluted all the other top players.
    It's more prominent in the smaller schools in ohio - particularly in basketball where one elite player can carry a team to state.
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red
    In Ohio, I think a public school actually has an advantage if it can keep its own kids. EG Colerain kept its own kids while Moeller, St. X, Elder, and Lasalle dilluted all the other top players.
    My understanding (which may well be mistaken/out of date) is that the Archdiocese of Cincinnati cracked down on recruiting and implemented some sort of districting system for the secondary schools they oversee. Of the schools you mentioned, St. Xavier (Jesuit) is the only school not subject to these guidelines.

    My cousin, for example, lived in McNick's district. Had he wanted to go to Moeller, like any right-thinking person, I believe he would have had to sit out athletics his freshman year. He went to St. X, and was promptly disowned. (I'm kidding, sorta.)

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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    I found a nifty way to sit out my freshman year in Tennis.

    I didn't make the team.
    When people say that I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky High School athletic proposal

    If anyone wants a forum to follow this, I highly recommend bluegrasspreps.com.

    The results are in.

    PROPOSAL 1
    Proposed by Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to Bylaw 4 to
    create a defined territory for each member school.
    81 182 3 9

    PROPOSAL 2
    Proposed by Dale Butler, Principal, Breckinridge County High School – An
    amendment to Bylaw 4 to create an exception for students enrolled in schools that
    do not have a high school within that school system enabling them to play for the
    school in the county of residence.
    97 163 6 9

    PROPOSAL 3
    Proposed by Mark Swift, Ashland Blazer High School – An amendment to Bylaw 4
    to require a Kentucky residence in order to be eligible to participate.
    189 75 2 9

    PROPOSAL 4
    Proposed by the Becky Bushong, Henry Clay High School – An amendment to
    Bylaw 6 to apply the period of ineligibility for transferring students to those students
    below grade nine who participate at any level on a high school team and then
    change schools.
    128 136 2 9

    PROPOSAL 5
    Proposed by the Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to Bylaw 6 to
    apply the period of ineligibility for transferring students to those students below
    grade nine who participate at the varsity level on a high school team and then
    change schools.
    126 135 4 10

    PROPOSAL 6
    Proposed by Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to Bylaw 6,
    Section 1 to stipulate that the Principals of the sending and receiving schools could
    mutually agree to a waiver of the period of ineligibility.
    108 157 0 10

    PROPOSAL 7
    PROPOSAL 7 - Proposed by Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to
    Bylaw 6, Section 1 to stipulate that the one year period of ineligibility would be for
    varsity play only.
    79 187 0 9

    PROPOSAL 8
    Proposed b y Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to Bylaw 6,
    Section 1 to stipulate that the automatic ineligibility provisions for students under
    penalty would require that such be a “legal” penalty, and not a school imposed
    penalty such as temporary suspension or demerits. This proposal would make a
    corresponding amendment to Bylaw 7.
    111 150 5 9

    PROPOSAL 9
    Proposed by Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to Bylaw 6,
    Section 2 to restrict foreign exchange students to non-varsity play.
    109 157 0 9

    PROPOSAL 10
    Proposed by Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to the Bylaws to
    create a new bylaw to restrict the awarding of financial aid that is not need based.
    This would be to codify existing interpretations and create a separate bylaw.
    142 120 4 9


    PROPOSAL 11
    Proposed by Jeff Edwards, Jeffersontown High School – An amendment to Bylaw
    8 to reinstitute the restriction on students playing on outside basketball
    opportunities during the school year, and to allow for a pre and postseason
    showcase event
    142 123 1 9

    PROPOSAL 12
    Proposed by Jim Sexton, Eastern High School – An amendment to Bylaw 8 to
    specify that if a student participates on a school team, they may not also compete
    during that sports season on an outside team. This provision would apply to
    baseball, basketball, football, soccer, softball and volleyball.
    140 125 1 9

    PROPOSAL 13
    Proposed by the KHSAA Board of Control – An amendment to Bylaw 23 to allow
    for the forfeiture of championship competition in the unlik ely event of the use of an
    ineligible competitor.
    226 23 0 26

    PROPOSAL 14
    Proposed by the KHSAA Board of Control – An amendment to Bylaw 25 to codify
    the reporting requirement for a violation of the limitation of seasons.
    216 33 0 26

    PROPOSAL 15
    Proposed by the Mike Wlsoinski, Lafayette High School– An amendment to Bylaw
    25 to create a fall tryout period for baseball and softball.
    65 184 0 26

    PROPOSAL 16
    Proposed by Ronnie Fields, Anderson County High School – An amendment to
    KHSAA Bylaw 25 to return control of the non-season period to the member schools
    and out of state association control. The activities by sport coaches during the
    periods outside of Bylaw 25 would be determined at the local level.
    39 209 0 27

    PROPOSAL 17
    Proposed by the KHSAA Board of Control – An amendment to Bylaw 25 to revise
    the manner in which matches are counted in basketball and eliminate the
    confusing language regarding double and single elimination tournaments.
    203 47 0 25

    PROPOSAL 18
    Proposed by the KHSAA Board of Control – An amendment to Bylaw 33 to ensure
    that the forfeiture of a championship contest, redistribution and removal of records
    remain options in the case of the use of an ineligible player.
    214 36 0 25

    PROPOSAL 19
    Proposed by the KHSAA Board of Control – An amendment to remove Bylaw 35 as
    outmoded and outdated.
    228 17 0 30

    PROPOSAL 20
    Proposed by John Proctor, Meade County High School – An amendment to the
    KHSAA Constitution to require the Board of Control to divide the public (M1, D1,
    F1) and private (J1, R1, M1) schools into different groups for the conduct of
    KHSAA state championship play.
    195 78 0 2
    PROPOSAL YES NO ABS PRE

    Looks like it passed. I wasnt suprised to see Mark Swift propose what he did, since there have been players who live in South Point who have played in Kentucky in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.


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