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Thread: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

  1. #16
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    CE, I've heard the money argument. I just don't think it's a good one. I have a hard time believing the NCAA couldn't make just as much from a playoff system.
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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    Just for giggles here's a history of Division 1 football champions from the NCAA site.

    http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_fo...st_champs.html
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    That's a giggle
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  5. #19
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    CE, I've heard the money argument. I just don't think it's a good one. I have a hard time believing the NCAA couldn't make just as much from a playoff system.
    I'm the biggest proponent you'll find of an NCAA D1 playoff, but there are some practical reasons why a full "Playoff" couldn't work beyond a very limited scope for football.

    For starters, there is an issue with number of games and time. The NCAA basketball tournament has the luxary of being able to play rounds in rapid succession due to the quick-turnaround that basketball teams can make playing games. With football, the given minimum is 1 week off between each round. Thus, even the simple 6 team "playoff" I outlined in the previous reply would take 3 weeks to complete. Given that conference championships such as the SEC Championship aren't played until the first week in December, the minimum start date for such a tournament would be 2nd week of December. Increasing the number of teams to 16 pushes the national title game to New Years Day.

    A total of 15 games get played in this scenario, not enough to satisfy the various bowl constitutients, 13 of whom would be left hanging in this arrangement. 40 schools are left out of the postseason under this arrangement, meaning 40 less payouts. No non BCS school would qualify for the postseason, assuming the playoffs started today (Using AP Polling: 3 PAC-10, 1 Big 12, 4 ACC, 4 SEC, 3 Big 10, and Notre Dame), meaning no mid-major conference would recieve a postseason payout...unless you got the power confrences to agree to a post-season revenue sharing split, and I wish you good luck on that! A team would play a maximum of 4 games, meaning it would have to travel fans for at least 3 games (assuming the national title game will sell out regardless of who is playing)

    Pushing the number of teams to 32 increases the number of games to 31, mandating the creation of 3 additional bowl games to sell tickets for. Suddenly a school is responsible for playing a maximum of 5 games, and travelling fans to 5 of those games. The national championship game is now played into the first week in January, starting to encroach on NFL playoff time, but no biggee, the current setup does anyway right now. Still, that's 5 more weeks of practice for the kids, 5 more games on the college schedule, pushing a lot of teams to 16-17 games. 5 more weeks of travel, with 5 more bills for airfare, hotel, and all related expenditures for the universities. We're starting to do a little better with including Mid-Majors in this setup, with TCU (Mountain West) at #20, Fresno Sate (WAC) at #22, and Toledo (MAC) at #31, but still nowhere near the amount of post-season exposure for these conferences (C-USA and Sun Belt get no postseason contenders at all). So, while the bowls are all happy in terms of number of games, the conferences are most certainly not, with no 1 mid-major getting more than 1 team and some conferences being shut out of postseason play entirely. And, beyond that, you've still eliminated over 20 schools from postseason play -- 20 payouts that don't get made. Even further, that's 20 schools that don't get a national television game to advertise their program, aid recruiting and, in some cases, even aid the admissions department for the university (Fun Fact: Freshman applications went up by 11% the year after Michael Vick took Va Tech to the national title game -- more applications means greater selectivity and higher academic profile).

    And, would the bowls really be happy with this setup? Boston College at #13 will surely have a good fan turnout for week 1 of the post-season at whatever site they're seeded to play, but does anyone see their fans continuing to travel if they win and go on to week 2 or week 3? Amazing as a Cinderalla story like Toledo or TCU might be, does anyone see them bringing any fans to a first game, much less a second game? Does anyone see a city coming out to support a game at a neutral site between two teams they have no ties to if no fans are travelling in week 2? Getting people out for March Madness to sell a couple thousand basketball tickets is one thing...but getting a couple 10,000 seats for football at $40+ a pop, that's something else entirely. The obvious answer to is to just play the games at home stadiums for teams, but then you're back to the bowls and cities getting upset for losing their games.

    Of course there are ways that a playoff makes more money...TV revenue would undoubtedly be higher; look at the astronomical price that CBS pays for exclusive rights to the Mens Basketball Tournament. The NCAA could bid the rounds out to ABC, NBC, CBS and ESPN; somebody would pay to be the exclusive home of college football championships. Maybe, in time, the popularity of this playoff would increase to the point that each of the games in each of the rounds is a hot ticket in the various bowl cities -- and, at the same time, the TV contract becomes a "name your own price" deal for the NCAA and it is able to pay out to the confrences even more money than they get under the current setup. Maybe December turns into a winter "March Madness," with people filling out brackets, entering office pools, and playing hookey from work to watch games...

    But those are Maybes...and atheletic directors and bowl coordinators don't like "maybe" when they've got cold, hard cash in hand right now and a system that they believe is working well because it makes them money. Fans want to see a playoff to find out who wins the national title. Analysts want a playoff to find out who wins the national title. Players want a playoff to find out who wins the national title. The people who make the decisions, ADs, Presidents, Bowl Types, etc. -- they don't really care who wins a national title so much as they care about making ends meet in the athletic department and selling tickets to a football game at a neutral site.

    Its money...its uncertainty...its inertia...

    Its not going to happen.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 10-27-2005 at 04:27 AM.
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  6. #20
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Just for giggles here's a history of Division 1 football champions from the NCAA site.

    http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_fo...st_champs.html
    Thanks, that link does make one chuckle.

    Lets take this one for example

    1996
    Florida: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, NFF, Sagarin, Sporting News, USA/CNN, NY Times, National Championship Foundation, Dunkel, Matthews, DeVold
    Florida St.: Alderson
    Who is Alderson and why did he award Florida State a national title?
    Alderson System (1994-98), a mathematical rating system based strictly on a point value system reflecting competition as well as won-lost record. Developed by Bob Alderson of Muldrow, Oklahoma.
    Should make everyone laugh, because Florida and Florida State met in the final game that season, where the Gators hung half a hundred in beating FSU 52-20.

    But like Chip said, some rinky dink dude with a computer awarded the championship game loser a national title, and it was noted by the NCAA.

    Quite the conundrum.

  7. #21
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Auburn's claim was just as legit as Notre Dame's.

    Technically speaking, the NCAA does not recognize a Division I national champion. They recognize Division I-AA, Division II and DIvision III but not Division I. That's why Auburn can lay claim to a national championship last year. Not the national championship since the NCAA doesn't recognize it. That's why schools like Alabama can claim to have so many national championships in football. If some podunk newspaper thought a team was the national champion, who was going to say different? Back in the day they had 2 or 3 teams claim to be national champions some years. Why is the BCS championship any more legitimate than any other organization that votes on such a thing?
    Now you're just playing with symantics. Sure, there's no official NCAA title, and sure there are a ton of dumpy little titles out there. But the reality is that none of those titles outside of the final AP poll and the BCS title game mean a thing. It's like boxing, there's a thousand belts out there, but unless you've got one of the big three no one cares. By the way, your link still doesn't show a Tommy Tuberville coached Auburn team with any titles, even including all the little dumpy ones out there.

  8. #22
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    A playoff system won't solve anything. Coaches will still complain about their seeding, just like the basketball coaches complain about being sent to a distant regional or a more challenging regional.

    The only thing I truly lament about the BCS is that it inspires teams in the major conferences to schedule cupcake opponents in the pre-season, because of the subjective importance of remaining undefeated and rolling up impressive victories. Ohio State and Texas would never schedule that home and home series now.

  9. #23
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    I don't think that a playoff system would necessarily have to do away with the bowl games. You use those weeks in December when they're not playing games anyway, with the exception of a few conference championship games, and you have the playoff to get down to the final two teams. Then you take the other teams that got eliminated from the playoff and give them bids to the other major New Years bowls. All of those other little bowl games that happen before New Years wouldn't be affected anyway since those teams are generally farther down in the rankings and wouldn't be part of the playoff anyway. You would still have coaches complaining about seeding and you would still have some teams on the bubble that would complain that they should have gotten in. There's no perfect system, but I think a playoff would be better than what we currently have and I don't necessarily think you would have to get rid of the bowl games entirely.

  10. #24
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini
    Now you're just playing with symantics. Sure, there's no official NCAA title, and sure there are a ton of dumpy little titles out there. But the reality is that none of those titles outside of the final AP poll and the BCS title game mean a thing. It's like boxing, there's a thousand belts out there, but unless you've got one of the big three no one cares. By the way, your link still doesn't show a Tommy Tuberville coached Auburn team with any titles, even including all the little dumpy ones out there.
    Very good. You saw that Tuberville didn't win a national championship. Is that a valid reason for him not being qualified to criticize the process?

    As for those other titles not meaning a thing, that may be your opinion but some of those schools who won those titles may disagree. A school like Alabama can say that they have won 15 national championships and recruits hear that and it makes them want to play there. In reality it may have only been 5 or 6 and the Tuscaloosa Shopper may have given them the rest. By my count Princeton won 23 championships - most before 1900. Just because the BCS wasn't around then doesn't mean that those were illegitimate championships. If some other newspaper or wire service or organization comes along and offers more money than the BCS to hold their version of a national championship game, the BCS isn't going to mean a whole hell of a lot anymore.

    All of this is opinion anyway. Even the computer standings are determined somewhat by poll rankings. I don't take anything away from USC for winning the BCS title last year but since Auburn ran the table and played in the tough SEC and beat a very good Va Tech team in the Sugar Bowl, if they and others want to believe they won a national championship last year that's fine with me.
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  11. #25
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Very good. You saw that Tuberville didn't win a national championship. Is that a valid reason for him not being qualified to criticize the process?
    That was never my stance. My stance was that it was dumb to call out Lou Holtz as one of those "coaches who haven't won any games" when Lou Holtz has accomplished a bunch more than Tommy Tuberville has. To me Tuberville undermined his whole point about ESPN by being dismissive of someone who has done more in the profession than he has. When Tommy gets a ring or two, a real one, then he can trash talk Lou.

  12. #26
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini
    That was never my stance. My stance was that it was dumb to call out Lou Holtz as one of those "coaches who haven't won any games" when Lou Holtz has accomplished a bunch more than Tommy Tuberville has. To me Tuberville undermined his whole point about ESPN by being dismissive of someone who has done more in the profession than he has. When Tommy gets a ring or two, a real one, then he can trash talk Lou.
    He has a ring is the point. There isn't a true national champion in any year. Ohio State in 02 was the only undefeated team and is obviously the national champion, but it's a mythical championship.
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  13. #27
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Auburn coach speaks out against BCS system, ESPN

    I don't know if a playoff will solve anything. My alma mater is 1-AA and they have been left out of the playoffs a couple of times when a lot of people felt they should have made it. Increase that outrage 10 times and that's what you'll get when someone like Florida has three losses but has played a tough schedule and won't make the playoffs because they aren't ranked high enough. And you still have the rankings factor at work there. Maybe Georgia's coach or AD doesn't want to rank Florida too high because of the rivalry and the fact that if Florida doesn't make the playoffs, that could hurt their recruiting.

    I think the travel issue is a non-starter. Let's say Ohio St. made the playoffs and their first round game was in Knoxville, TN and their 2nd round game was in Atlanta. You think the Buckeye faithful wouldn't travel to those places for those games if they had ticket availability. What was the game at Indiana like? Were there a lot of Buckeye fans who made the trip to Bloomington? I'd imagine they wouldn't have had problems scoring tickets there.

    The drawback to a playoff system that I see are the death of the bowls. I'm sure they could incorporate the major bowls into any playoff system but a lot of the mid-major schools and some of the major ones point to a bowl game as a reward. Some teams are just ecstatic to go to any bowl no matter how lame it is. It's national TV, it's an extra few weeks of practice and it's a little extra money for the program. Coaches have bowl incentives in their contracts. To be honest, I believe there are about 15 too many bowls out there. But they aren't paring them down any time soon and if these cities want to have a bowl game, why shouldn't they? Sure, you could keep all the lower tier games and still have a playoff but who would really care about those games?

    I don't think the present system is so horrible. It certainly gets people talking about college football which is a good thing.
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