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Thread: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

  1. #106
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    Wrong. Vince McMahon is the reason. There would have been no Hulk Hogan, no Steve Austin, no Rock, no anything without Vince.

    As bad a person as he is, he made it big time.
    Hogan was in the right place at the right time. Speculation has been that Vince would have attempted to push Junkyard Dog or Superfly Jimmy Snuka to his #1 position had there been no Hulkster. Whether or not that would have worked is anyone's guess.

    My take is that things might have taken a few more years to go mainstream, but someone eventually would have been able to draw the dollars and media attention for Vince.

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  3. #107
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    Hogan was in the right place at the right time. Speculation has been that Vince would have attempted to push Junkyard Dog or Superfly Jimmy Snuka to his #1 position had there been no Hulkster. Whether or not that would have worked is anyone's guess.

    My take is that things might have taken a few more years to go mainstream, but someone eventually would have been able to draw the dollars and media attention for Vince.
    I dunno. As M2 said, Superstar Billy Graham had the same look and build as Hogan but he had the same problem as Hogan did when he was working in Minneapolis - no one knew who he was besides wrestling fans. Hogan had the charisma and the look that Vince could use and he could talk unlike JYD or Superfly. If it hadn't been Hogan, it may have been Roddy Piper or Sgt. Slaughter but could either of them translate to the mainstream?
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  4. #108
    bomarl1969
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    Wrong. Vince McMahon is the reason. There would have been no Hulk Hogan, no Steve Austin, no Rock, no anything without Vince.

    As bad a person as he is, he made it big time.
    No YOUR wrong. No other wrestler has ever carried the load like the immortal one. His popularity has ran wild for almost 30 years now, 30 YEARS. Name one other wrestler that is as popular as the Hulkster?

    Name one other wrestler that was able to pack in over 90,000 people for a main event? Name one other wrestler who body slammed Andre the Giant? Name on other wrestler who BEAT Andre the Giant? Name one other wrestler who graced the cover of Sports Illustrated? Name one other wrestler Sly had in mind for the role of Thunderlips in Rocky III?

    Also name one other wrestler that is so beloved by his fans that you try to make a heel out of not once, not twice, but three times and the fans love you so much that they refuse to boo you? Happened in the AWA, the early days of the nWo in WCW, and also again in the WWF with the match against the Rock. I loved it when the Rock was supposedly the fan favorite in that match against the heel Hogan and everyone at Skydome chanted "Rocky Sucks! Rocky Sucks!"

    And if you want to bring in steroids on this debate, list Vinny Mac as well.

    I agree with the post about Hulk and Vince wouldn't be anywhere without each other, but Hogan was the draw, NOT Vince McMahon. Vince is smart, that is why he still uses Hogan on a part time basis to this day, Hulkamania will live forever and Vince knows it! Bring in Hogan about 3-5 times a year and your guaranteed to have a sell out ppv, as well as a high home audience rating.
    Last edited by bomarl1969; 02-10-2006 at 08:51 AM.

  5. #109
    redleg4256
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Curt Henning was "Mr. Perfect" right????

  6. #110
    redleg4256
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    nevermind, I did not realize someone had already pointed that out. Sorry...

  7. #111
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Cloning is an imperfect science. Take Jessica Simpson. Many of her traits are in fact superior to her template: Brittney Spears, but she has a horse face.

    John Cena is The Rock's imperfect clone. Think about it.

    1. Both are high energy guys.
    2. Both have similar finishing moves.
    3. Both have awkward submission moves added to make them appear more than one dimensional.
    4. Both use insults for their mic skills
    5. Both wrestle the exact same match every time.


    This isn't a bad thing. WWE needs "Rock" characters or the become a little stale.

    As for Hogan, without McMahon uniting all the splintered groups, there is no Wrestlemania for Hogan to sell out. Vince could have put a number of guys in Hogans spot. The key thing about Hogan was he appealed to kids much more than he did adults. That was the reason for his success.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #112
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by bomarl1969
    No YOUR wrong. No other wrestler has ever carried the load like the immortal one. His popularity has ran wild for almost 30 years now, 30 YEARS. Name one other wrestler that is as popular as the Hulkster?

    Name one other wrestler that was able to pack in over 90,000 people for a main event? Name one other wrestler who body slammed Andre the Giant? Name on other wrestler who BEAT Andre the Giant? Name one other wrestler who graced the cover of Sports Illustrated? Name one other wrestler Sly had in mind for the role of Thunderlips in Rocky III?

    Also name one other wrestler that is so beloved by his fans that you try to make a heel out of not once, not twice, but three times and the fans love you so much that they refuse to boo you? Happened in the AWA, the early days of the nWo in WCW, and also again in the WWF with the match against the Rock. I loved it when the Rock was supposedly the fan favorite in that match against the heel Hogan and everyone at Skydome chanted "Rocky Sucks! Rocky Sucks!"

    And if you want to bring in steroids on this debate, list Vinny Mac as well.

    I agree with the post about Hulk and Vince wouldn't be anywhere without each other, but Hogan was the draw, NOT Vince McMahon. Vince is smart, that is why he still uses Hogan on a part time basis to this day, Hulkamania will live forever and Vince knows it! Bring in Hogan about 3-5 times a year and your guaranteed to have a sell out ppv, as well as a high home audience rating.
    WOW.

    Hulk Hogan can't wrestle. He's awful. He has been carried in everyone of his matches. The only reason he became what he became is due to his character and the marketing of it. That came from Vince.

    Ever notice how everyone of Hogan's matches uses the exact same formula? Hogan starts hot, opponet gains the upper hand, Superman comeback, leg-drop. That plan is perfect for him. Who came up with that? Vince McMahon.

    Ever notice how Hogan's ventures outside of wrestling fail, how is that? Vince isn't the main promoter of them.

    It's really easy to see.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  9. #113
    bomarl1969
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    Ever notice how Hogan's ventures outside of wrestling fail, how is that? Vince isn't the main promoter of them.

    It's really easy to see.
    Ah, so Hogan selling out shows with Ted Turner's rasslin' federation was a failure? In his very first match in WCW he beat Flair for the title and the crowd went nuts (mostly adults).

    The whole nWo thing was Hulk's idea and guess what? He beat Vince's federation in the ratings on Monday nights for close to two years. Yeah Hogan is just a big dumba-- when it comes to creativity in wrestling...damn the only person who was able to out-rate McMahon on Monday nights.

    Funny how you say he appealed to kids more than adults. Cause I remember back in the day, including myself the majority of his fan base being grown men. YOu have to remember, wrestling wasn't always the way it is today. Now everyone knows it is choreographed (spelling?). Back in the day damn if the wrestlers couldn't convince you that it was real. The way Hogan had feuds with guys like The Iron Shiek (Iran Contra), Nikoli Volkoff (Cold War), Andre the Giant (being undefeated), and finally Sgt. Slaughter (Gulf War), what wasn't there to cheer for with Hogan?

  10. #114
    bomarl1969
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Also Hogan didn't fail in AWA either, a federation that Vince had absolutely nothing to do with. Hey, Hulkamania actually started in AWA, by the Hulk when he was supposed to be a heel but everyone liked him anyway. Get your facts straight before giving McMahon all the credit for Hulk's success. And another thing...when Hulk appeared in Rocky, he was wrestling for Vince McMahon, Sr. in the WWWF, where again surprise Hogan was a heel. The man just has a magical aura about him that no other wrestler in the history of wrestling can match.

    People are just jealous of Hogan because he doesn't have much wrestling talent, but is considered the greatest of all time.

  11. #115
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    Fit is back, and the gimmick is... He's Fit Finley. WWE got that one right at least.

    Every Friday on UPN!

    David Fit Findley, the freaking BELFAST BRUISER has been on tv for awhile now again, and NO BODY FREAKING TOLD ME????

    GAH!
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  12. #116
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    David Fit Findley, the freaking BELFAST BRUISER has been on tv for awhile now again, and NO BODY FREAKING TOLD ME????

    GAH!
    Sorry, George Grande. We didn't know Jim Edmonds was on TV. :
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  13. #117
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Hogan, per his usual act, refused to sell in the AWA. He also refused to sell in the WWWF. Promoters, agents and other wrestlers hated the guy because all he ever tried to do was make himself look good at another guy's expense. He wasn't that popular (that's a myth Hogan tried to create in his autobiography) and he was running out of outfits that were willing to put up with his nonsense. He was looking at a future as a movie extra.

    Vince Jr. taking over the WWF was a lot like Sonny getting control of the Corleone family and deciding to sell drugs. Vince figured out that Hogan would play well on television and saw that as the key to expansion.

    Hogan came up with the nWo idea in order to keep his star high in the firmament when his face run in WCW had lost steam. Sting had eclipsed him in terms of popularity. Then two big name younger guys jumped over from the WWF and Hogan figured he'd get a heat rub from them. Ultimately it killed WCW. Hall and Nash as the invading badasses and Sting as the wild card are what sold that whole storyline.

    Hogan kept scheming to keep himself on top even after the nWo ran out of steam. He did it up to the very end of WCW, which died as a sacrifice to his ego.
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  14. #118
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Hogan, per his usual act, refused to sell in the AWA. He also refused to sell in the WWWF. Promoters, agents and other wrestlers hated the guy because all he ever tried to do was make himself look good at another guy's expense. He wasn't that popular (that's a myth Hogan tried to create in his autobiography) and he was running out of outfits that were willing to put up with his nonsense. He was looking at a future as a movie extra.

    Vince Jr. taking over the WWF was a lot like Sonny getting control of the Corleone family and deciding to sell drugs. Vince figured out that Hogan would play well on television and saw that as the key to expansion.

    Hogan came up with the nWo idea in order to keep his star high in the firmament when his face run in WCW had lost steam. Sting had eclipsed him in terms of popularity. Then two big name younger guys jumped over from the WWF and Hogan figured he'd get a heat rub from them. Ultimately it killed WCW. Hall and Nash as the invading badasses and Sting as the wild card are what sold that whole storyline.

    Hogan kept scheming to keep himself on top even after the nWo ran out of steam. He did it up to the very end of WCW, which died as a sacrifice to his ego.
    Let's not forget Thunder in Paradise.

    At least someone gets it.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  15. #119
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Hogan, per his usual act, refused to sell in the AWA. He also refused to sell in the WWWF. Promoters, agents and other wrestlers hated the guy because all he ever tried to do was make himself look good at another guy's expense. He wasn't that popular (that's a myth Hogan tried to create in his autobiography) and he was running out of outfits that were willing to put up with his nonsense. He was looking at a future as a movie extra.

    Vince Jr. taking over the WWF was a lot like Sonny getting control of the Corleone family and deciding to sell drugs. Vince figured out that Hogan would play well on television and saw that as the key to expansion.

    Hogan came up with the nWo idea in order to keep his star high in the firmament when his face run in WCW had lost steam. Sting had eclipsed him in terms of popularity. Then two big name younger guys jumped over from the WWF and Hogan figured he'd get a heat rub from them. Ultimately it killed WCW. Hall and Nash as the invading badasses and Sting as the wild card are what sold that whole storyline.

    Hogan kept scheming to keep himself on top even after the nWo ran out of steam. He did it up to the very end of WCW, which died as a sacrifice to his ego.

    Hogan did not come up with the NWO idea. It was Eric Bischoff after stealing the idea from Japan. Hogan had a part in it, but he difinitely did not come up with it. The NWO did not kill WCW, it sure didn't help that they dragged it out, but the main reason that WCW no longer exists is that AOL bought Time Warner and Ted Turner's money wasn't put into the promotion anymore. If Ted Turner still owned it, it would be around today.

    If you want to look at the beggining of the end as far as "in the ring", it was the beating of Goldberg when he was the hottest thing in the business. The one-finger win by Hogan didn't help anything either. Sure, Hogan had a big part in that, some would say, the biggest part.

    To the guy that keeps saying that Andre the Giant was "undefeated", that simply was not the case. He had lost several matches prior including more than one time in Japan.

    As far as WCW going under, many things played a part in it including AOL, Vince Russo, WWE being pretty hot at the time, Hogan's antics, the "dusty" finishes, poor marketing. You can't label any one thing as the cause because they all played a part in it.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  16. #120
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: WWE wrestler Eddie Guerrero found dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup
    Hogan did not come up with the NWO idea. It was Eric Bischoff after stealing the idea from Japan. Hogan had a part in it, but he difinitely did not come up with it. The NWO did not kill WCW, it sure didn't help that they dragged it out, but the main reason that WCW no longer exists is that AOL bought Time Warner and Ted Turner's money wasn't put into the promotion anymore. If Ted Turner still owned it, it would be around today.

    If you want to look at the beggining of the end as far as "in the ring", it was the beating of Goldberg when he was the hottest thing in the business. The one-finger win by Hogan didn't help anything either. Sure, Hogan had a big part in that, some would say, the biggest part.

    To the guy that keeps saying that Andre the Giant was "undefeated", that simply was not the case. He had lost several matches prior including more than one time in Japan.

    As far as WCW going under, many things played a part in it including AOL, Vince Russo, WWE being pretty hot at the time, Hogan's antics, the "dusty" finishes, poor marketing. You can't label any one thing as the cause because they all played a part in it.
    Oh, there were a number of factors, but Hogan sucked the life out of the promotion. You're right that Bischoff came up with the nWo idea, but making Hall and Nash his caddies was Hogan's baby.
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