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Thread: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

  1. #106
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    You can't always count on turnovers. That's true, but I think what we have is Marvin knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the defensive personnel he has at his disposal and coaching them to emphasize the strengths in an effort to make up for the weak areas. This isn't a team that can flat out shut down the run and be in the QB's face all day long, so they emphasize trying to force turnovers. They're not going to force opposing offences into 3 and out possessions all day long. The turnover is their bread and butter right now. You get a good run stuffing DL in there that can give you a decent pass rush, and this would be one of the best defenses in the league.
    Last edited by OldRightHander; 12-05-2005 at 02:45 PM.

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  3. #107
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by Playadlc
    I agree. I love reading your posts Steel, but that remark makes me think there is some serious Bengals hate going on.
    That's your misperception, but my own lesson learned is starting to look like, "Don't show up after the Bengals beat your favorite team and talk about what actually happened or so much as mention your team's deficiencies."

    Eh, I exaggerate of course. There will always be fans who have a fair take on the state of the two teams that took the field and what happened during the game. And there will always be fans (like Heffner) who couldn't care less. I have no illusions about that, just like I had no illusions about Pitt's regular season win against New England last season or their 15-1 record OR where they are right now. You don't start off at 7-2 and end up at 7-5 after Sunday unless you have ISSUES.

    And I actually like the Bengals. I've rooted for them in the past. I'll root for them in the playoffs. But if it's ok with you, I'll root more for the defense than the offense because that D needs all the support it can get.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  4. #108
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRightHander
    You can't always count on turnovers. That's true, but I think what we have is Marvin knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the defensive personnel he has at his disposal and coaching them to emphasis the strenghts in an effort to make up for the weak areas. This isn't a team that can flat out shut down the run and be in the QB's face all day long, so they emphasize trying to force turnovers. They're not going to force opposing offences into 3 and out possessions all day long. The turnover is their bread and butter right now. You get a good run stuffing DL in there that can give you a decent pass rush, and this would be one of the best defenses in the league.
    Really good point.

    I really like the young linebackers.

    Landon Johnson's quietly playing like Reggie Williams, Odell's gonna be an absolute star, and Pollack's eventually going to be a big plus. Once Simmons' day is done, having those three on the field on a regular basis is something to look forward to.

    I was impressed with Fanene and Shaun Smith yesterday as well, but they are going to have to bring someone in that takes up more space, preferably a veteran.

    They're also going to need to draft a young corner to eventually replace Tory James. Ratliff's shown some flashes, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with him if he's left on an island.

    Oh yeah, and they need Madieu back desperately.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  5. #109
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    That's your misperception, but my own lesson learned is starting to look like, "Don't show up after the Bengals beat your favorite team and talk about what actually happened or so much as mention your team's deficiencies."

    Eh, I exaggerate of course. There will always be fans who have a fair take on the state of the two teams that took the field and what happened during the game. And there will always be fans (like Heffner) who couldn't care less. I have no illusions about that, just like I had no illusions about Pitt's regular season win against New England last season or their 15-1 record OR where they are right now. You don't start off at 7-2 and end up at 7-5 after Sunday unless you have ISSUES.

    And I actually like the Bengals. I've rooted for them in the past. I'll root for them in the playoffs. But if it's ok with you, I'll root more for the defense than the offense because that D needs all the support it can get.

    Issues is right.

    That Steeler offensive line can't seem to move guys off the ball enough. I couldn't concieve of the Bengals holding them to under 100 yards on the ground.

    Ben put the ball up 41 times, but I wonder if it wasn't more out of a lack of confidence in the running game that caused it.

    That was the first time I've seen a Pittsuburgh team try to win a shootout, and it almost worked.

    I think the approach took Bresnahan by surprise, but I didn't notice the Bengals loosening up at all. It seems like they conceded the passing yards to assure that they had enough guys up front to stop the run.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  6. #110
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Two wins and Cincy hosts a playoff game. Four wins and Cincy gets another bye week.

    The job is not done. No let downs.
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  7. #111
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Pittsburgh did? What? Did you actually watch the Pitt/Indy game???
    No, Cincy did. Your comment was that if the Bengals played so bad against a team like the Steelers, then how would they line up against a decent team? My point was to say CIncy played pretty well against the Colts. Yeah, they gave up a lot of points, but the Colts score that way on everyone. We stayed witht them for four quarters, which is lining up pretty well against a decent team.

    I "suggested" nothing of the sort. Cincy quite obviously deserved to win that football game. However, if you think allowing 31 points to THAT offense bodes well for the future, you've got quite the skewed outlook on things.
    You told GAC that you agreed that he shouldn't be impressed by the Bengals. So what, they deserved to win but they were unimpressive?


    Pitt does play bad fundamental football at the worst possible times. And again, LAST season isn't THIS season. LAST season, they were good enough to overcome that. THIS season, they are not. That's not a difficult concept for most folks to grasp. You, however...
    So you won 15 games last year by playing bad fundamental football? Wow. Maybe more coaches should teach their players the Steelers system.

    Sounds like someone else needs to adjust their grip on that concept you were talking about....
    Last edited by Dom Heffner; 12-05-2005 at 03:26 PM.

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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    Really good point.

    I really like the young linebackers.

    Landon Johnson's quietly playing like Reggie Williams, Odell's gonna be an absolute star, and Pollack's eventually going to be a big plus. Once Simmons' day is done, having those three on the field on a regular basis is something to look forward to.

    I was impressed with Fanene and Shaun Smith yesterday as well, but they are going to have to bring someone in that takes up more space, preferably a veteran.

    They're also going to need to draft a young corner to eventually replace Tory James. Ratliff's shown some flashes, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with him if he's left on an island.

    Oh yeah, and they need Madieu back desperately.
    I agree with the linebackers. I've always liked Landon Johnson, of course I am biased though since he is a Boilermaker, but he leads the team in tackles for loss. He is fast, he's not big. That's really the problem with the bengals D right now. With their small DT, it makes it tough to stop the run inside with the combination. Now, I don't understand why people would try and run outside on them, because the LBs are fast enough to get out there, but inside is the problem. At least that's what I've seen.

  9. #113
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    That Pitt team had some issues, but they still put up a pretty good fight. You have to hand it to them for that. I figured we would have a pretty good chance with their O line being banged up and Ben being less than 100%, but they still almost pulled the game out despite those problems. The Bengals D does have some room to improve. A good safety and a couple defensive tackles would be a good start.

  10. #114
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by rdiersin
    I agree with the linebackers. I've always liked Landon Johnson, of course I am biased though since he is a Boilermaker, but he leads the team in tackles for loss. He is fast, he's not big. That's really the problem with the bengals D right now. With their small DT, it makes it tough to stop the run inside with the combination. Now, I don't understand why people would try and run outside on them, because the LBs are fast enough to get out there, but inside is the problem. At least that's what I've seen.
    I agree. This team needs to address two critical areas through free agency and the draft:

    1) Interior defensive line.
    2) Secondary. They need a stud corner to eventually replace Tory. Tory is adequate, but he's aging and I believe next year will be the end of his run. They also need a safety to compliment Madieu.

    Other positions on my wish list: TE, DE and P.
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  11. #115
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    One thing that was most impressive yesterday was Rudi continually remaining standing and grinding out 4 yards out of no gains. I think that really demoralized the Steelers' defense. I've been bragging on Chris Perry all year, but yesterday wasn't his game, it was Rudi's, and those were some tough 98 yards he accumulated, and with some of the hits, to not fumble even once was game ball material.
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  12. #116
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    Issues is right.

    That Steeler offensive line can't seem to move guys off the ball enough. I couldn't concieve of the Bengals holding them to under 100 yards on the ground.
    Their starting Left Tackle is out so they used rookie Trai Essex there. The guy wasn't even dressed for a game up until he started his first game. The result is that Pitt can't use Heath Miller as often as they need to because they need Miller to stay back to help block on passing downs. Their RT just sucks. Cowher left them undermanned this season on the O-Line and it's showing. As for the run, there isn't much you can do when you're consistently behind even if your O-Line is solid.

    Ben put the ball up 41 times, but I wonder if it wasn't more out of a lack of confidence in the running game that caused it.

    That was the first time I've seen a Pittsuburgh team try to win a shootout, and it almost worked.
    Problem is that it can't work without a solid #2 receiver. Cedric Wilson, for all his complaining about not seeing balls thrown to him, drops enough that I wouldn't throw to him. Quincy Morgan can run very fast in a straight line, but has few ball skills and can't get open. Yay. Randle El is a slot guy who needs to stay a slot guy. And he's prone to dumb mistakes to boot.

    I think the approach took Bresnahan by surprise, but I didn't notice the Bengals loosening up at all. It seems like they conceded the passing yards to assure that they had enough guys up front to stop the run.
    If I were playing Pitt when Big Ben has a bum hand and one actual Wideout to throw to, I'd stack up to stop the run as well.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  13. #117
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    The bengals D has sacrificed yards for Turnovers all year. When it works, they win. When it doesn't they lose. Jacksonville, Pittsburg part I, and Indianapolis didn't turn it over (at least not enough to make up for the yardage/points). That's really as complicated as it is. This team will not be able to regularly beat a good offensive team. They can score on anybody, but Milton's pitching for the D.
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  14. #118
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    The bengals D has sacrificed yards for Turnovers all year. When it works, they win. When it doesn't they lose. Jacksonville, Pittsburg part I, and Indianapolis didn't turn it over (at least not enough to make up for the yardage/points). That's really as complicated as it is. This team will not be able to regularly beat a good offensive team. They can score on anybody, but Milton's pitching for the D.
    The D isn't that bad. At least Harang is on the mound for comparison purposes.
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  15. #119
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner
    No, Cincy did. Your comment was that if the Bengals played so bad against a team like the Steelers, then how would they line up against a decent team?
    No. That was not my comment and I'd appreciate it if you'd cease and desist the "words-in-mouth" game. I noted that Pitt had issues offensively and the Cincinnati defensive performance does not bode well for future games against good offenses. I did NOT say the Bengals played badly. In fact, the Bengals played about as well as they can play.

    My point was to say CIncy played pretty well against the Colts. Yeah, they gave up a lot of points, but the Colts score that way on everyone. We stayed witht them for four quarters, which is lining up pretty well against a decent team.
    Yeah, Cincy lost to Indy in very much the same fashion Cinci beat Pitt this past Sunday. The Bengals defense gave up 76 points in those two games. And that inspires confidence why exactly?

    Funny. I was LESS encouraged about Pitt BEATING New England last regular season than you are about the Bengals "lining up" in a loss to Indy this season. Myopic homerism produces illiogical reactions like yours pretty consistently.

    You told GAC that you agreed that he shouldn't be impressed by the Bengals. So what, they deserved to win but they were unimpressive?
    Their defense was exceptionally unimpressive. It's impossible for you to not to know that. The Bengals have a very good offense. That's never been a question or a point of contention so maybe you can narrow your focus from here on out.

    So you won 15 games last year by playing bad fundamental football? Wow. Maybe more coaches should teach their players the Steelers system.
    I didn't win 15 games last season. Pittsburgh did.

    Is this last year or this year? Simple question, but for you it appears to be far more difficult. Heck, the Pats have three more losses than they did last year. The Bengals have more Wins. At what point do you figure out that LAST season is an entirely different thing than THIS season?

    The Steelers do dumb things a LOT. They did so last year, just to let you know. But they were more talented last year as well so they were able to overcome. See, talented teams overcome their shortcomings better than less talented teams. It's not a difficult concept to grasp really. Well, for most folks.

    Sounds like someone else needs to adjust their grip on that concept you were talking about....
    Well, at least this conversation has produced a result- I now know who not to rely on in order to get a balanced, realistic view of the Cincinnati Bengals.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  16. #120
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: Game thread: Bengals and Steelers - part deux

    see, you are wrong Steel. There was nothing exceptional about how poorly the Bengals D played. That's what they've been doing all year.
    4009




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