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Thread: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

  1. #181
    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark
    I thought I would bring out some of my scouting notes on Womack. Granted these are from 2004, Womack's career year. I just thought I would share for some fun.

    In 2004 I scouted the NL central exclusively for the end of May and all of June. (Living in Cincinnati keeps the expense report down although I do travel quite a bit. )

    I saw Tony Womack play in 26 games between May 21 and June 30th. Tony played in 36 games total in that span. Inter- League series were also played in that time frame. I was able to see the Cardinals play the Rangers that year as well. Drese threw a great game 2 in that series. 7IP 4H 2R 1ER 1BB 3SO 1HR (Anderson)

    In those 26 games I worked, Womack hit .333 (37-111) and walked 8 times. So I looked into the games that I did not see and found that he was on par with what I saw. He hit .343 against the NL Central from May 21 to June 30th. Marlon Andersen filled in for Womack at 2B on days he did not play.

    The Cardinals only played the Reds once during that span. Womack was 5 for 13 in that series. From my notes I see that he was still "turning" on 93-95 MPH. Aggressive on fastballs and did "fish for down and in breaking balls". Hard sliders down and in 0-1, 1-1 would result in a fould ball or a swing and miss if preceded by a first pitch fastball. EVERY time.

    Most teams attacked Womack high in the zone. His weakest zone by far. Tony was 3-11 when swinging at a first pitch fastball. 0 for 6 lettes and above. Low and away was not a weakness as several teams tried to go "soft away" where Tony hit them hard. On two occasions he was thrown changeups away with a 2-2 count in successive AB's and promptly slapped those pitches in the 5.5 hole for a base hit. In the next 10 games I saw him this was not attempted again.

    Renteria often hit behind Womack but the Cardinals were more dangerous when Lankford hit second. Womack's time to first varied from 3.77 to 3.89. Every steal attempt was within the first 3 pitches. Womack was picked off by LaRue in the second game of their series with a phenomal throw to end the 1st inning. In that same game Phil Norton gave up a two run single to Jason Isringhausen after the Reds Intentionally Walked Womack. Rolen eventually tripled and ended Norton's disatrous evening. 0.2IP 3H 5R 5ER 3BB

    Womack's arm was below average and range was still rated as good. Bag footwork was "behind a step" on occasion but I felt he was trying to get to the back of the bag to make the sure out due to his absence of arm strength. Recovering from Tommy John. He had a full step more range to his left than his right. Typical glove hand confidence. Anyhting hit up the middle was subject. If he did glove it a hard throw was nearly impossible. Runners should check his positioning to determine if he could make a timely throw to the bag once going to his left. His weak arm could leave Renteria hang out to dry enabling the runner to break up a potential DP. Tony had excellent range on all pop flies. Once again, with a weak arm runners should check their distance.

    Just some notes. I have a binder full of detailed info and it would take HOURS to put even a third of that on here but I just wanted to share a little bit.

    Yet again TC thankyou for your perspective. I truly feel that this deal was not that bad. Then again I am viewing it as a 1 year commitment or less.

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  3. #182
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyRedsFan30
    But will Howard play the game the right way both on and off the field?

    Maybe Womack is being brought in to be the team's new DH.

    Designated Hugger.

    *rim shot*
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  4. #183
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    "We just felt he was more of a prototypical National League type of player. Our lineup needed an additional speed component," O'Brien said.
    Another in a long line of truly stupid comments passing through the lips of Dan O'Brien. Baseball is freakin' BASEBALL. Good God, does Dan O'Brien actually think that Tony Womack stunk last year because he couldn't play baseball the "American League" way???

    Anyone else read that any other way that "Tony Womack will be our starting Second Baseman and will occupy one of the top two slots in the lineup on a daily basis"? O'Brien isn't talking about the bench. He's talking about the lineup.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  5. #184
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Womack makes an out 71% of the time he comes to bat, he's Glenn Beckert in a hitters era.

  6. #185
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    "We just felt he was more of a prototypical National League type of player. Our lineup needed an additional speed component," O'Brien said. "I know he's in outstanding shape. I wouldn't sell him short on what he's capable of accomplishing this year."
    There it is, suddenly it all comes together. Casey = slow = gone
    Womack = speed component=making plays closer at first as he makes an out 3 out of 4 times=stolen base the one time a game he gets on base

    Go Go Mojo DanO
    Go Go Mojo DanO
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  7. #186
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    . He's talking about the lineup.

    Tony Womack will get 600 PA's in 2006.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  8. #187
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    Tony Womack will get 600 PA's in 2006.
    Well, looks like I finally try out a Hacking Mass team for 2006.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  9. #188
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Womack will get thrown out about 75 percent of the time, but he'll sure run hard in the process.

    He's a "pro's pro." Running hard and getting out is part of the process of playing the game the right way. Everyone knows you get an 'A' for effort!
    And this one belongs to the Reds!!!- Hall of Famer Marty Brennaman

  10. #189
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyRedsFan30
    I guess Dan O'Brien does read this board.

    Seriously, good work, but we really can't count on anything out of Womack. Even if he is getting further removed from surgery. He simply wasn't good even before the surgery.

    How scary is it that Christian Guzman's OPS was slightly better than Womack's? And that was with Guzman playing half his games in Washington. Womack was truly awful and in a league made for hitting no less.
    Excellent point. Can't argue against those numbers. I wish Dan did read this board. Then maybe he could actually have some conversation topics while being made fun of at the GM and Winter meetings.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  11. #190
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyRedsFan30
    Womack will get thrown out about 75 percent of the time, but he'll sure run hard in the process.

    He's a "pro's pro." Running hard and getting out is part of the process of playing the game the right way. Everyone knows you get an 'A' for effort!

    Sabo used to run until he was out. I always liked that!! LOL!
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  12. #191
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    I wish O'Brien read this board too.

    If he did, we might actually have a decent team right now.

    I wish one of the Reds' beat guys would be bold enough to ask O'Brien if he understands that Womack had a terrible OBP/OPS, etc. last year and that those things correlate to Runs Scored. I would be interested in his response.
    Last edited by CincyRedsFan30; 12-08-2005 at 10:05 PM.
    And this one belongs to the Reds!!!- Hall of Famer Marty Brennaman

  13. #192
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark
    Excellent point. Can't argue against those numbers. I wish Dan did read this board. Then maybe he could actually have some conversation topics while being made fun of at the GM and Winter meetings.
    It's easy for a GM to be made fun of when he's running around the Winter meetings with the words "Bigger Fool" written on his forehead in red sharpie marker.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  14. #193
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    Any minute now we'll hear that DanO is bringing Tony Batista back home from Japan.

    I can just feel it. The Batista/Womack attack!!!
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  15. #194
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    DanO's a tools guy, people can babble over OBP this OBP that, for example, it won't phase men like Bowden or O'brien.

    To him, Womack is a decent player because he is fast and a good team guy which the Reds need with all the thump in the lineup, keeping things "real".

    Look at DanO's high draft picks? Wood, Bailey, BJ and Bruce. Players selected because of tools over production.

    That is why I can see him overpaying a pitcher like Weaver if allowed, tools baby.

    Last year, DanO got caught looking for the tools in the FA market but lost Clement and went for a minus stuff lefty that "used" to have a good heater(tools). He traded for a aging, past his prime pitcher in Ortiz who once had good "tools" during the early 2000's. DanO is always looking for that little move, of "undervalued" players, but he is always looking at the tools, which got him last year because they were declining, which his braintrust of advisors and scouts seemed to miss.

    This year, he is at it again with the Womack deal. I don't know what type of GM Cast will bring in, but hopefully one that is more "modern" than O'brien or Bowden, who represent the "ancient" thoughts besides being poor GM's.

  16. #195
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN: Reds trade for Womack

    What's Neifi Perez's availability? Id Rey Ordonex busy next season?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


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