Dunn for Lidge?

[Patrick Bateman]

The Yankees dont have that kind of pull anymore. When was the last time they outbid anyone for a FA.

How about last year. They outbid everyone for Wright and Pavano. They gave Matsui an offer he couldn't refuse this off-season.

If the Yanks really want Dunn then when the time comes they will outbid everyone. This is the first off-season they haven't done it yet.

And yes they do have that knid of pull. Last season Randy Johnson pretty much forced Arizona to trade him to the Yanks.

Astrobuddy, do you just make this stuff as you go along? I remember you posting on the St.Louis boards. You said the same type of stuff. You were wrong then so I really don't find your guarantees very credible. Have you ever been right about anything?

[vaticanplum]

The Yankees dont have that kind of pull anymore. When was the last time they outbid anyone for a FA.

'Bout less than a year ago. Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright.

There's really very little predicting what Adam Dunn himself will do when he is a free agent. Home base, money, and yes, even team loyalty and comfort all end up being factors. In my opinion, the only thing we can really speculate on is what choices the Reds' organization will make with him, or more accurately, where on the "horrendously bad" scale they will fall.

edit: Austin Kearns beat me to it (oh, if I had a nickel for every time I said that.)

[Astrobuddy]

Kearns, if you remember me from the St Louis boards then you remember that I am right more often than I am wrong. Beltran is the only player move of note that I was wrong about.

If you guys consider Pavano and Wright BIGTIME Free Agents then I guess I have no answer. The Yankees threw stupid money at middle of the road pitchers who no one wanted bad enough to match the idiotic offer.

The Yankees dont get everyone they want anymore. They wanted Beltran, they couldnt keep Clemens or Pettitte, they cant get Wagner, Ryan, etc etc ... Steinbrenner has spent himself into a corner.

In order to get Dunn they will have to offer his $17 million per season to match what Houston will offer when all things are considered. If Houston wants him, no one will be able to match the offer.

Randy Johnson was able to force a trade to the Yankees because he had a no trade clause and the D-Backs were wanting to move his salary. That had nothing to do with Yankee power. Johnson is one of the reasons ole George wont be able to sign Dunn.

[KronoRed]

Clemens is from Texas, talked a lot about playing near home, how many years was it before he did?

[vaticanplum]

Kearns, if you remember me from the St Louis boards then you remember that I am right more often than I am wrong. Beltran is the only player move of note that I was wrong about.

If you guys consider Pavano and Wright BIGTIME Free Agents then I guess I have no answer. The Yankees threw stupid money at middle of the road pitchers who no one wanted bad enough to match the idiotic offer.

The Yankees dont get everyone they want anymore. They wanted Beltran, they couldnt keep Clemens or Pettitte, they cant get Wagner, Ryan, etc etc ... Steinbrenner has spent himself into a corner.

In order to get Dunn they will have to offer his $17 million per season to match what Houston will offer when all things are considered. If Houston wants him, no one will be able to match the offer.

Randy Johnson was able to force a trade to the Yankees because he had a no trade clause and the D-Backs were wanting to move his salary. That had nothing to do with Yankee power. Johnson is one of the reasons ole George wont be able to sign Dunn.

Ok, this has nothing to do with Adam Dunn, but I take issue when people don't bother to get their facts straight. To say that no one else was interested in Pavano or Wright is absurd. In the next breath you say that they paid an "idiotic" amount for them. If no one else was interested in them, they wouldn't have had to pay a lot. Boston, among other teams, was pursuing both of them hard-core -- particularly Pavano, if I remember correctly. They both had a poor, injury-laden season this year, but this time a year ago, no one was calling them middle-of-the-road.

The Yankees stopped pursuing Beltran (not the other way around) because, believe it or not, they didn't want to spend any more money, not to mention the fact Omar Minaya gave him a very appealing offer right when Pedro Martinez, a pitcher of some note, was coming to play for the Mets.

Clemens wanted to play in Houston. Pettitte followed because the Yankees mucked it up with him, not because he wouldn't have wanted to play for New York if they had given him more respect and money. That was personal. There is no evidence that they tried to pursue Wagner or Ryan.

And just like Clemens wanted to play in Houston, Johnson wanted to play in New York. This is the last team of his career, and he wanted to end it in a place where he had a chance to win a World Series. Which, yes, the Yankees still have. They are hardly in the poorhouse yet.

I have no idea where Adam Dunn will end up. I hope he stays in Cincinnati, and I think he could. But, given the Yankees' aging outfield (and the large contracts that will be unloaded along with it), I have long feared that they will give him an offer he cannot refuse (I fear this, and I AM a Yankees fan). It is completely absurd to suggest that the Yankees could not get Adam Dunn if they wanted to, and that he'd have no interest in playing there because they're a washed-up, meaningless team.

[Astrobuddy]

Well, he wanted to come here and a deal was done in 1999 but Hunsicker pissed him off in a meeting and he was traded from Toronto to New York instead.

The other 2 times he was a FA Houston didnt have the money to get it done.

IN 2007 they will have the money.

[Patrick Bateman]

Kearns, if you remember me from the St Louis boards then you remember that I am right more often than I am wrong. Beltran is the only player move of note that I was wrong about.

No, I actually remember you being wrong about everything. You made such predictions like Carlos Zambrano would be an awful pitcher.

If you guys consider Pavano and Wright BIGTIME Free Agents then I guess I have no answer. The Yankees threw stupid money at middle of the road pitchers who no one wanted bad enough to match the idiotic offer.

Well, Pavano was one of the top FA pitchers and came off a huge year. He was highly coveted. Wright is injury prone but was also highly marketable. Pitchers with an ERA in the low 3's are usually pretty valuable. Anyways, who even suggested that they were "BIGTIME" I don't recall that phrase being mentioned earlier.

The Yankees dont get everyone they want anymore. They wanted Beltran, they couldnt keep Clemens or Pettitte, they cant get Wagner, Ryan, etc etc ... Steinbrenner has spent himself into a corner.

Nobody can get everyone they want. It depends on if the player follows the money. Dunn strikes me as a guy who will take the big contract when he wants it. Whoever offers him the dough will get him.

Randy Johnson was able to force a trade to the Yankees because he had a no trade clause and the D-Backs were wanting to move his salary. That had nothing to do with Yankee power. Johnson is one of the reasons ole George wont be able to sign Dunn.

It had everything to do with Yankee power. They are known as constant winners and Johnson wanted to go to a place where he was sure he would contend for the WS. If you want to win and get big bucks the NY is still the way to go.

[Astrobuddy]

Dunn will have no interest in playing in NY because he isnt a NY kind of guy. The Yankees have NO shot at winning a WS anytime soon because they are OLD, have NO pitching and have WAAAY over spent.

If you get mad at people who dont have their facts straight, get mad at yourself.

1) Pettitte came 1st , not Clemens. Pettitte never had any intention of playing for NY and he was coming home, period. You are right, NY messed it , but it wasnt over money or respect. They couldnt match Houston's offer of a good contract and sleeping in his bed with his wife, playing golf with his friends and family. That matters.

2) Yes, the Yankees got out of the Beltran sweepstakes because they COULDNT AFFORD TO STAY IN IT.

3) Pavano and Wright are middle of the road pitchers. Both have had 1 each good seasons, NOT GREAT, just good. Just like Burnett this season... where are your beloved Yankees who can have who they want?? They need pitching as bad as anyone.

[Astrobuddy]

Kearns.. you got me. Thats the other thing I was wrong about. Zambrano has turned into a MONSTER. But like I said.. I am right more than wrong.

Dunn isnt a MONEY guy. Thats what I am trying to tell you. He will get paid and paid well. He isnt going to go just to the higher bidder. But even if he does, all things considered Houston's offer will beat them all.

You discount home WAAAY to much. When you can go home and still have as much a chance to go to the WS and make as much money why would you choose NY over Houston.

He wont.

[Patrick Bateman]

Dunn will have no interest in playing in NY because he isnt a NY kind of guy. The Yankees have NO shot at winning a WS anytime soon because they are OLD, have NO pitching and have WAAAY over spent.

That's a completely baseless argument. How do you know he's not a "NY kind of guy". You simply made that up and there is no possible way to back that up.

If you get mad at people who dont have their facts straight, get mad at yourself.

You haven't backed up one thing you have said yet, but you still manage to talk down to other posters even though you don't have any proof to support your arguments.

Yes, the Yankees got out of the Beltran sweepstakes because they COULDNT AFFORD TO STAY IN IT.

They could have afforded it. They have proven time and time agian that they have the money. They thought he wasn't worth the money and they were right.

Pavano and Wright are middle of the road pitchers. Both have had 1 each good seasons, NOT GREAT, just good. Just like Burnett this season... where are your beloved Yankees who can have who they want?? They need pitching as bad as anyone.

You are right. For the most part they have been mediocre pitchers, but there is one big difference. They both had big years when entering the market. They had their good year at the right time. For FA pitchers, the previous year usually has the biggest effect on their market value. Since they had big years they had a huge market.

[Patrick Bateman]

You discount home WAAAY to much. When you can go home and still have as much a chance to go to the WS and make as much money why would you choose NY over Houston.

That's because the home town effect is usually very small. Many guys take the "home team discount" but it's usually not very much. If the Yanks offer a substantial amount of money that knowone else has any interest in matching (which they very well might) then the home town effect likely wont come into play.

You will get the odd guy like Griffey who will take a well below market deal to go where they want, but that is very rare. I don't see this happening with Dunn. If Dunn chooses Houston it is likely because they offered an extremely competitive deal to him.

[ochre]

Seriously Astrobuddy, unless you have something substantive to add, we've all heard your unfounded opinion several times now. Let's move on...

[Astrobuddy]

I gave you a kinda a blunt hint earlier considering Dunn which you have dismissed.. DUNN'S FAMILY IS HERE ... DUNN'S FRIENDS ARE HERE. Yes, I am saying I have inside info. Dismiss it if you want too.

This is how I know he isnt a NY kinda guy and that he wants to play in Houston.

The Yankees payroll is over $200 million. They cant go any higher. Ole George does have a limit. Why so many people have Yankee envy I dont know, but they dont have the salary room anymore.

YOU are wrong about Beltran. The Yankees got out and it was reported by EVERYONE because a $17 million per deal would cost the Yankees $26 million per by the time you included the penalties from the payroll tax.

[Astrobuddy]

Why should I move on. I am just debating. This is what a forum is for right? People debate the issues.

If I have offended anyone, it is not my intent.

[ochre]

You aren't debating. You are repeating the same statements over and over. Now you are claiming insider info, which conveniently enough is nothing that we can disprove. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish? Appears to be nothing more than trolling for reactions to me.

If you have something new to add feel free to do so.