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Thread: Carson Palmer signs Extension

  1. #106
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    You're right--from that angle (from the Bengals' site--which was not CBS's replay angle, which is what I was going on) Kimo's even more guilty--he dove RIGHT AT Palmer's knee with NO help from the OL--merely a brush of the hand on the ass. From that angle it looks EVEN MORE intentional. Wow. That was a flat-out clipping. I was willing to give Kimo some benefit of the doubt, that part of the problem might have been that he lost his balance. But no way--the dude flew like Superman into Palmer's knee. Freaking egregious.
    Whatever. First you try to tell me that Kimo pulled a spin move, and now Kimo "flew" into him. Yeah. Offensive lineman didn't have anything to do with where he went. Right.

    300-pound defensive lineman drives full force ahead while attempting to get to the QB. Offensive lineman applies force, then releases right hand (throwing Kimo off balance), turns him into Palmer, and with left hand continues to push him off balance toward Palmer- resulting in unavoidable contact with the QB's leg during his follow-through. I'm not sure if you've ever tried to push someone off-balance when they're already off-balance, but it sure as heck doesn't require a ton of force.

    Quit acting as if Kimo flew unabated into Palmer with reckless abandon while striking him with full intent well after he'd released the ball. Just like the phantom spin move, the helmet spearing, and leg twisting I heard about earlier, that just didn't happen. It's unfortunate that Kimo's path to Palmer was affected by an offensive lineman who must not have known where Palmer was. But unfortunate is as far as this one goes.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  3. #107
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Gotta disagree there.

    The point is, he didn't just "connect" with the QB. He had time to wrap his arm around Palmer's leg. That's easy for anyone to perceive, even a referee.

    That means he could have at least tried to stop himself. But he didn't.
    You can't stop yourself mid-air while falling. No one can. And yes, a referee can perceive that as well. And Kimo was wrapping his arm AS he was falling into him. I don't understand what else you expected him to do. I'm really at a loss on that key point. HOW was he supposed to "stop" himself while falling into the QB?
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  4. #108
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Whatever. First you try to tell me that Kimo pulled a spin move, and now Kimo "flew" into him. Yeah. Offensive lineman didn't have anything to do with where he went. Right.

    300-pound defensive lineman drives full force ahead while attempting to get to the QB. Offensive lineman applies force, then releases right hand (throwing Kimo off balance), turns him into Palmer, and with left hand continues to push him off balance toward Palmer- resulting in unavoidable contact with the QB's leg during his follow-through. I'm not sure if you've ever tried to push someone off-balance when they're already off-balance, but it sure as heck doesn't require a ton of force.

    Quit acting as if Kimo flew unabated into Palmer with reckless abandon while striking him with full intent well after he'd released the ball. Just like the phantom spin move, the helmet spearing, and leg twisting I heard about earlier, that just didn't happen. It's unfortunate that Kimo's path to Palmer was affected by an offensive lineman who must not have known where Palmer was. But unfortunate is as far as this one goes.
    The OL had NOTHING to do with Kimo's angle of attack. Nothing. Erase the O lineman from that film and Kimo spears Palmer's knee from the side unaided. Period. Malicious? Who cares? I don't know. Intentionally low hit (late is debatable, that much I agree with you about)? God yes.

  5. #109
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    It really is impossible to determine the malicious intent of a late hit. It is very difficult to tell from replays or from the stands whether a player is trying to hold up or whether he is out of control.
    The Steelers feel that they are a "physical" team, and they feel like "establishing" this "fact" is a part of their game plan. At the beginning of the game, the Steelers were blocking and posturing after the play in a really excessive way. The refs called no fouls, then there was the late hit on Palmer.
    Its really up to the NFL's administrators if they want to protect skill players from late hits. If I were part of the NFL admins., I would be disgusted with the Steelers and their game plan and how that impacted this game.
    Bengals fans - don't feel badly. You got a bad break, but that's the NFL playoffs. You'll get good breaks eventually. Palmer will come back, although training camp should be a pleasant surprise, rather than an expectation. Think more like mid-season for Palmer to return to form.
    In the meantime, the Steelers are on the decline. You will be crushing them frequently in the next few years. When the Steelers are woeful, though, don't forget this loss and this hit and take great pleasure for every time you rout them.

  6. #110
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Why do people use his reaction to defend a very obviously deliberate late-hit? I'm sure he didn't mean to send Palmer into paroxysms of pain, but the guy steamrolled Palmer's knee wantonly, well after he had chucked the football--he wasn't going on forward inertia and he wasn't tackled into Palmer. He rolled. He meant to cheap shot, but not to injure. When he did injure, he regretted it. Why is that so hard to fathom?
    Maybe because those were his reactions immediately after the play, and after the game. I'm also going on players who know and have played with Kimo, and have come out in his defense.

    So I disagree with you. It's simply that.

    And no one hates the Steelers and Bill Cowher more then I.

    Its real easy for people to go find pictures - slow them down, creates stills, etc., and try to make this look like a cheap shot. And I understand people are angry and upset over Palmer getting seriously injured. It's understandable.

    Watch the replay - he was in no position, and had no idea that Palmer had already released the ball. We're talking about a play that happens in a matter of seconds.

    As rfs already stated, and I agree...

    Didn't look dirty at all to me. Things move so fast on every play in the NFL. You can't do a slow motion replay analysis and do justice to the speed and violence on every play.
    Could a late hit flag have been thrown by the refs. Possibly yes. But again, Kimo had no idea that the ball had already been thrown.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  7. #111
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    Even if Kimo couldn't see that the ball was released, that doesn't give him license to make a late hit.
    Listen to what you are saying? If he doesn't know the ball has been released, then how can it mean license for a late hit?

    Yes - I can understand it if a ref sees it and throws a flag (thats the ref's responsibility - that is their job). Where was the flag? Is that Kimo's fault?
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  8. #112
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    The photos are nice, but in the second one, someone forgot to circle Kimo's arm, which is "unintentionally" wrapped tightly around Palmer's lower leg.
    When you are knocked to the ground, how or where are you suppose to try and tackle a guy at? You're down there. That is the only place to grab. Is there a rules change all of a sudden? So what if he grabs the QB around the legs trying to tackle him? That's illegal or should be termed a malicious hit?

    I find it interesting that players are taught that the best way to take a runner down is hit them low and take their legs out from under them - don't hit them high. And I understand the justification for rules to try and protect the QB (hits to the helmet, etc). But I've seen two of my Brown's players go down in the last 2 years with the same trype of injuries during play (torn ACL's) in Winslow and Edwards. Theirs were not deemed committed by malicious hits; but Palmers is.

    Maybe they need to change the rules to two handed touch below the waste on QB's only.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  9. #113
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Right. Defender is going down to the ground- partially aided by the offensive lineman who shoved him in the direction of his QB's legs. And said defender should make no effort whatsoever to tackle the guy he's supposed to tackle.

    It wasn't the arm that did the damage. It was the shoulder and that shoulder would have rolled that knee regardless even if football players were taught to tuck their arms in and make no effort to tackle the guy they think has the football.

    Heck, why don't we just ban the pass rush entirely and be done with it.



    Like FCB's phantom "whirlygig" move, neither of those things happened.

    I swear, the way the tales of this event continue to escalate I'm certain that one day we're going to hear a Bengals fan tell his grandchildren about the time a Pittsburgh player took out a gun and shot Carson Palmer in the leg as he was walking back to the huddle.

    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #114
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    Maybe because those were his reactions immediately after the play, and after the game. I'm also going on players who know and have played with Kimo, and have come out in his defense.

    So I disagree with you. It's simply that.

    And no one hates the Steelers and Bill Cowher more then I.

    Its real easy for people to go find pictures - slow them down, creates stills, etc., and try to make this look like a cheap shot. And I understand people are angry and upset over Palmer getting seriously injured. It's understandable.

    Watch the replay - he was in no position, and had no idea that Palmer had already released the ball. We're talking about a play that happens in a matter of seconds.

    As rfs already stated, and I agree...



    Could a late hit flag have been thrown by the refs. Possibly yes. But again, Kimo had no idea that the ball had already been thrown.

    I really don't care about the Bengals. I never followed them. But Kimo headed towards Palmer's knee for a reason. And it wasn't *merely* to tackle him. Watch that clip that Steel posted. His trajectory could have landed him nowhere else but into the side of Palmer's knee.

    To watch the behavior of the rest of the team throughout the game, it's ridiculous to see this play as being anything but a punkout attempt by a bunch of tough guy idiots who bring their "aggressive" (read: meatheaded) style of play to show-up a kid phenom.

    Yeah, accidents happen in football. This wasn't one of them. It was wanton, careless, and bush as hell.

  11. #115
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    When you are knocked to the ground, how or where are you suppose to try and tackle a guy at?
    He was not knocked down. At all. Kimo dove and the O lineman did an "ole" as he went past.

  12. #116
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Ok then, forget the late hit... but what about the illegal hit?
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  13. #117
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    I agree. Did Kimo intend to injure Palmer as severely as he did? Probably not. Did he intentionally hit him late? Yes. Did the Steelers essentially win the game as a result? Absolutely.
    Several movies quotes have been running through my mind. I realize my thoughts are probably unfair and not exactly peaceful.
    Sean Connery as "Jim Malone" in "The Untouchables" explained to Kevin Costner's "Elliott Ness" how to get Al Capone: "They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue." The Steelers pulled a knife, sent Palmer to the hospital and got away with it.
    Accident? John Wayne in "Big Jake" to Richard Boone: "And you understand. Anything goes wrong, anything at all--your fault, my fault, nobody's fault--it won't matter--I'm gonna blow your head off."
    Yes, those quotes are extreme, and make-believe as well--and, yes, on refelction, my "better angels" would probably make me regret even having the thoughts.......I just hope the Colts whip the Steelers 75-0.
    What about the Duke in "The Quiet Man" talking to the Reverend about the reason why he quit fighting:
    ďTony Gadelo was a good egg... nice little wife and home, a couple of kids, clean fighter. But I didnít go in there to out box him. I went in there to beat his brains out, to drive him into the canvas, to murder him. Thatís what I did. For what? Purse? Piece of the gate? Lousy money.Ē
    2014 Reds record when I'm attending: 23-18 - FINAL
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  14. #118
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Quit acting as if Kimo flew unabated into Palmer with reckless abandon while striking him with full intent well after he'd released the ball. Just like the phantom spin move, the helmet spearing, and leg twisting I heard about earlier, that just didn't happen. It's unfortunate that Kimo's path to Palmer was affected by an offensive lineman who must not have known where Palmer was. But unfortunate is as far as this one goes.
    I have watched the video probably 20 times, and Kimo is not propelled into Palmer. Steinbach did have his left arm on the backside of Kimo, but that didn't alter Kimo's motion. I mean, if he was pushed into Palmer, he would have accelerated into his knee, which he didn't. His speed never changed.

    It's pretty obvious that he went low intentionally. Did he mean to tear his leg up? I don't think so, but he did go to far by diving right into his knees.
    DLC11@Insightbb.com

  15. #119
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    You guys ever play football?

    It's not that easy to totally control your every movement when you're rushing the passer. You talk like he's a robot or something, completely programmable.

    Things in the NFL happen at light speed. You're analyzing a slow motion replay and projecting your bias.

    It's a violent game, played at incredible speed.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  16. #120
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    Re: Carson Palmer signs Extension

    It's a violent game, played at incredible speed.
    By bowling bowls and jackhammers.


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