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Thread: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

  1. #16
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    I do not think the O's should take it. They'd be trading away one good contract for two bad ones.

    Even if this was "even money," they'll have a much tougher time finding a shortstop on the open market who's an impact hitter and decent defender.

    I'd like this trade for the Sox, and I've always been one who thought that Tejada was overrated.
    IMO Manny Ramirez has a great contract. If you pay it you get Manny Ramirez, who's one of the top five hitters in baseball. The Orioles supposedly have money to spend. Where else are they going to get a top five hitter?

    As for Clement, I don't think there's a problem with his contract if he goes back to his pre-ball-off-the-noggin form.

    The Orioles were 10th in the AL in hitting and pitching last season. Here's two guys that could help improve the club on both fronts. I wouldn't let money that I had on hand prevent me from getting better.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #17
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Krusty that makes sense. Probably won't happen because it does.

    If I am Baltimore, I take the trade, if BOS kicks in some cash.

    Then if I am the Reds, I explore Kearns to BOS. Having signed Hammond makes it easier to attch Merker to the deal. I too am higher on Pena.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    As for Clement, I don't think there's a problem with his contract if he goes back to his pre-ball-off-the-noggin form.
    I have it from a co-worker who has a relative in Boston who bartends. Apparently Clement has more issues than having been beaned. Third-hand stuff, but it makes you wonder, seeing as how the guy has very good stuff, logs innings, and keeps moving on.

    Ridiculous offseason for the Red Sox -- they trade for Beckett but still appear headed for a cliff. I wouldn't be surprised to see them plunge, but big $$$ may bail them out yet.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    This one is buzzing around NY talk radio...but I've seen nothing in print to confirm it:

    Mets trade: Aaron Heilman, Cliff Floyd, Victor Diaz, Brian Bannister
    Mets get: Manny Ramirez

    TB trades: Julio Lugo, Joey Gathright
    TB receives: Aaron Heilman, Victor Diaz, Bronson Arroyo

    Red Sox trade: Manny Ramirez, Bronson Arroyo
    Red Sox receive: Julio Lugo, Joey Gathright, Cliff Floyd, Brian Bannister
    I highly doubt this will happen. I think TB gets hosed in the deal. This thought that Heilman all of the sudden is this great pitcher doesn't make sense to me. He had a decent 2005, mostly in middle relief. He couldn't crack a rotation that had Zambrano, Ishii and Jay Seo. Minaya has done a great job building up Heilman's value, I'll grant him that.

    There's also a rumor in NY that the Mets are close to acquiring Baez from TB for a package headlined by Seo or Heilman. Baez has said that he wants to remain a closer, I wonder what the Reds could offer to get him from TB?
    Last edited by NJReds; 12-30-2005 at 10:32 AM.

  6. #20
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds
    This one is buzzing around NY talk radio...but I've seen nothing in print to confirm it:



    I highly doubt this will happen. I think TB gets hosed in the deal. This thought that Heilman all of the sudden is this great pitcher doesn't make sense to me. He had a decent 2005, mostly in middle relief. He couldn't crack a rotation that had Zambrano, Ishii and Jay Seo. Minaya has done a great job building up Heilman's value, I'll grant him that.

    There's also a rumor in NY that the Mets are close to acquiring Baez from TB for a package headlined by Seo or Heilman. Baez has said that he wants to remain a closer, I wonder what the Reds could offer to get him from TB?
    That isn't a bad deal even from Tampa Bay's point. Substitute Arroyo with either Papelbon or Jon Lester (I think the Devil Rays would insist on Lester) and it might happen. The only thing for the Red Sox is they miss that righthanded bopper in the lineup unless Lowell and Marte can pick up the slack.[/QUOTE]
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    There's an even more insane version of that NYM-TB-BOS deal that includes BAL and Miguel Tejada, where I think NYM would send Aaron Heilman, Kaz Matsui and cash to TB for Julio Lugo, then put Lugo with Victor Diaz, Kris Benson and Brian Bannister to BAL for Tejada, who they'd then in turn flip to BOS for Manny Ramirez. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna happen either, but there seemed to at least be a little something to it a couple days ago, I know Peter Gammons was beating on this deal then but it's quieted it down some since.

    On the more believable one, I think maybe Bannister and Seo to the Rays for Danys Baez is what's being discussed, I can see that one happening.
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  8. #22
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    I still don't understand why the Orioles would look the Manny/Clement gift horse in the mouth.

    For crying out loud, Leo Mazzone's your pitching coach. Don't you want to give him an arm like Clement to work with instead of the Rodrigo Lopez Laff-A-Lympics?
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  9. #23
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Perhaps. Mind you, I'd rather deal Kearns (though I'm in the minority on that score).

    Of course, if the Sox are really aching for an OF power hitter then maybe Papelbon's on the block as long as the Reds could send a reliever like Weathers or Mercker along with the bat.
    Add one more for the keep Wily Mo and trade Kearns first side.

  10. #24
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I still don't understand why the Orioles would look the Manny/Clement gift horse in the mouth.

    For crying out loud, Leo Mazzone's your pitching coach. Don't you want to give him an arm like Clement to work with instead of the Rodrigo Lopez Laff-A-Lympics?
    I dunno. Guess I have to agree to disagree. But have you considered that Manny's 2005 season at age 33 looks a lot like Sammy Sosa's 2002 season at age 34?

    Even if you're right and I'm wrong, I think the Orioles have the right to call in the horse dentist on this one.

    If you could guarantee me 3 years of 950+ OPS and 150 games/season from Manny, then maybe this trade makes sense for the Orioles. I don't think it's going to happen.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  11. #25
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    I dunno. Guess I have to agree to disagree. But have you considered that Manny's 2005 season at age 33 looks a lot like Sammy Sosa's 2002 season at age 34?
    Nope, largely because Manny and Sammy are two wholly dissimilar animals. Manny's a hitting genius. Sammy was a guy who had pitchers skirt around him when his power went wild.

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    If you could guarantee me 3 years of 950+ OPS and 150 games/season from Manny, then maybe this trade makes sense for the Orioles. I don't think it's going to happen.
    Nothing in life is guaranteed, but Manny Ramirez ripping the cover off the baseball is about as close as you can get to it. He hasn't had a season under a .950 OPS since his rookie season. He's averaged a 156 OPS+ the past three years, which just so happens to be his career average, which just so happens to be 20th on the all-time list.

    Here's what I will guarantee you, over the next three years Manny Ramirez's average OPS will run better than 100 points ahead of Miguel Tejada's.

    Baltimore's not a small market club and it's got money to spend. It can afford some steak and Manny's the porterhouse selection on the menu. The club has a player in Tejada who's trying to gripe his way out of town and it's been offered one of the best hitters ever plus a primo arm to give to the best pitching coach in the history of the game. This is front end talent the Orioles can afford. What's the option? Save a bunch of money on a lousy ballclub and play listless baseball while the D-Rays creep up on you?

    I'd get me the masher and the pitcher with A stuff and stop messing with the Jeromy Burnitzes of the world.
    Last edited by M2; 12-31-2005 at 01:17 AM.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #26
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    M2, the more i think, the more i think your dead on here. I liked the trade for BAL before if BOS would kick in some cash, now, just do it. Manny in any park is damn good, in that one, its plain scary.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  13. #27
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    M2, the more i think, the more i think your dead on here. I liked the trade for BAL before if BOS would kick in some cash, now, just do it. Manny in any park is damn good, in that one, its plain scary.
    Has anybody seen Manny's Pecota projections? I know bbp releases them early sometime. I'd be curious to see them.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    I might like the Chisox offer of McCarthy, Uribe and a prospect or two better. Mazzone with the chance to build a young rotation starting with Cabrera, McCarthy, Bedard and prospects like Penn and Loewen may be the better way to go in the long run for them. They'll have money to burn on hitters. Clement may have a great arm, but you know if the Red Sox are dying to deal him that he is carrying baggage of some kind, physical or otherwise.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  16. #30
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Sox offer Ramirez, Clement for Tejada

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty

    Just wait - it could get worse.....


    The more teams involved, its more cooks to spoil the soup....
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.


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