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Thread: Reds Hall of Famers announced

  1. #1
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    Reds Hall of Famers announced

    Congrats to Tom Browning, Lee May and Tom Seaver, just elected members of the Reds HOF.
    When a beer would taste good, have a Hudepohl :gac:

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    The "Big Bopper from Birmingham" was one of my favorites in the late 60's and early 70's. Glad to see "Big Lee" get in. I always liked Seaver, as well. Browning is one I can take or leave.
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    Member Reds Fanatic's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Here are the results from the fan voting for the hall of fame. Seaver and Browning were elected from the fan voting and a committee selected May.

    2006 FAN
    VOTING RESULTS*

    1. Tom Browning: 2,865
    2. Tom Seaver: 1,575
    3. Chris Sabo: 1,289
    4. Paul O'Neill: 1,195
    5. Dave Parker: 987
    6. Ron Oester: 838
    7. Rob Dibble: 735
    8. Hal Morris: 596
    9. Ray Knight: 391
    10. Dan Driessen: 332
    11. Tom Hume: 255
    11. Joe Oliver: 255
    13. Norm Charlton: 99
    14. Jeff Brantley: 74

    * Top 2 elected to Reds Hall of Fame

  5. #4
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Browning had almost twice a many votes as Seaver. Crazy!
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Congrats to all three. I'm a charter member of the HOF/Museum, and there is an effort already in place to try to convince Greg Rhodes, the Director of the HOF/Muesum to change the format from two inductees every year down to one. The thought of Chris Sabo, Paul O'Neill, etc being Reds HOF'ers is a concern to several of the charter members as we feel it will water down the honor. Any thoughts?

  7. #6
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Well ... considering they just let the fans vote in a pitcher who was league average and won only 123 games in his career ... that alone should signifiy that a serious change is necessary. Since 1998, the Reds have now elected 20 players into their Hall of Fame. Even during Browning's peak he was barely above league average. Vander Meer had a similar career as Browning, but he had a stronger peak as his best years were quite a bit better than Browning's best. One player per year is still probably too much; one guy every other year might be the best route to go.

    Unfortunately, there's likely very few people qualified who would be able to accurately judge whether some fringe players belong or not. Another problem with the process is considering players who were outstanding, but weren't with the Reds all that long. How do you accurately weigh very good players who played for only four to five seasons in Cincinnati compared to an above average player who was around for a dozen or more seasons? Tom Seaver is the greatest pitcher to ever put on a Reds uniform, however, his time in a Reds uniform was rather short.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 01-11-2006 at 11:24 PM.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    Well ... considering they just let the fans vote in a pitcher who was league average and won only 123 games in his career ... that alone should signifiy that a serious change is necessary. Since 1998, the Reds have now elected 20 players into their Hall of Fame. Even during Browning's peak he was barely above league average. Vander Meer had a similar career as Browning, but he had a stronger peak as his best years were quite a bit better than Browning's best. One player per year is still probably too much; one guy every other year might be the best route to go.
    I agree with the thought, but I think Browning is an exception. The combination of his popularity, his perfect game, his being the last homegrown pitcher to amount to anything, and his being a part of the last great Reds success story would have put him into any team's HOF.

    In my opinion, the only retired player I can think of who is no longer a Red who deserves HOF status is Barry Larkin. Lee May was deserving, and in my opinion so was Browning. I can understand Seaver even though I did not vote for him. The Reds have a dilemma though, as inductions = game tickets and HOF tickets sold when they bring the existing HOF'ers back for that day.

  9. #8
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Can you imagine if we'd gotten Seaver in '75?

    Or if the Vida Blue deal wasn't quashed?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    I agree with the thought, but I think Browning is an exception. The combination of his popularity, his perfect game, his being the last homegrown pitcher to amount to anything, and his being a part of the last great Reds success story would have put him into any team's HOF.

    In my opinion, the only retired player I can think of who is no longer a Red who deserves HOF status is Barry Larkin. Lee May was deserving, and in my opinion so was Browning. I can understand Seaver even though I did not vote for him. The Reds have a dilemma though, as inductions = game tickets and HOF tickets sold when they bring the existing HOF'ers back for that day.
    Yep, I see Browning as a sort of Reds version of Kirby Puckett. Statistically very borderline, but his immense popularity pushes him in easily. He's also a guy that's going to help sell an extra couple thousand seats when they induct him, which as you say is a large issue with the whole process. It's the typical fashion of tug o' war of marketing/revenue vs. maintaining honor in the HOF. Hate to say it, but the marketing/revenue side might win out, especially if they start putting guys like Chris Sabo in the HOF.

    I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to find one deserving player per year to elect if the Reds sifted through their entire history, though the problem then becomes electing a player from the 1920s doesn't fuel the revenues like a guy from the 1980s would. Ticket sales would likely spike only minimally, and 90 percent of the fans wouldn't pay any attention nor care about Player A's great nephew sitting on the field for 10 minutes as his relative is inducted.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 01-12-2006 at 08:47 AM.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    Can you imagine if we'd gotten Seaver in '75?

    Or if the Vida Blue deal wasn't quashed?
    Seaver and Blue would be local icons, and both the '75 and '76 team might have the upper hand in all those arguments against the '27 and '39 Yankee squads. Heck, Seaver won 22 games with a 145 ERA+ for a Mets team in 1975 that scored only 646 runs. It's tough to fathom what kind of single season win totals he could have put up with Big Red Machine run support.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  12. #11
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Congrats to all three. I'm a charter member of the HOF/Museum, and there is an effort already in place to try to convince Greg Rhodes, the Director of the HOF/Muesum to change the format from two inductees every year down to one. The thought of Chris Sabo, Paul O'Neill, etc being Reds HOF'ers is a concern to several of the charter members as we feel it will water down the honor. Any thoughts?
    The above posts and several others on this thread seem to imply that the standards for election to the Reds HOF have recently been watered down and there needs to be a return to the more strict standard that previously was in effect. I can't see that.
    IMO Tom Browning was as worthy of Reds HOF induction as were Vander Meer (class of '58), Mario Soto ('01), Gary Nolan ('83), Brooks Lawrence ('76), Jim O'Toole ('70), Jack Billingham ('84) and Don Gullett ('02). Browning wasn't as good as some of those other guys at his peak, but he also won more games as a Red than any of the others did, so complaining about Browning only having 123 wins as a Red seems to be a bit misleading to me.
    As for the possible election to the Reds HOF of Chris Sabo or Paul O'Neill, while I'm not sold on either of them, there are certainly players already in the Reds HOF with similar or lesser qualifications, such as Jerry Lynch (class of '88), Smokey Burgess ('75), Mike McCormick ('66), Ival Goodman ('59) and Gordy Coleman ('72).
    None of the aforementioned players or pitchers belong in Cooperstown of course, but if the standards for election to the Reds HOF are placed as high as they should be for election to The Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, the Reds may only elect a person to their HOF every decade or two.
    Last edited by RedsBaron; 01-12-2006 at 09:06 AM.
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  13. #12
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    Can you imagine if we'd gotten Seaver in '75?

    Or if the Vida Blue deal wasn't quashed?
    The 1975-76 Reds would now be regarded as clearly the greatest team in history had they had Seaver.
    The 1978 Reds would probably have won the NL West had they had Blue.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  14. #13
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    Re: Hall of Famers

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Congrats to all three. I'm a charter member of the HOF/Museum, and there is an effort already in place to try to convince Greg Rhodes, the Director of the HOF/Muesum to change the format from two inductees every year down to one. The thought of Chris Sabo, Paul O'Neill, etc being Reds HOF'ers is a concern to several of the charter members as we feel it will water down the honor. Any thoughts?
    Well, don't Wayne Granger and Smoky Burgess already do that?

    And isn't Chris Sabo a better pick than Harry Craft was?

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    Re: Reds Hall of Famers announced

    I think all 3 players are deserving. Obviously, Browning's career was no where near Seaver's but did spend his whole career here and provided one of the most historical (perfect game) events in Reds history. Popularity is going to be a part of the voting in any HOF balloting. I don't think it is necessarily right but face it, it is fact of life. How ridiculous is it that some writers didn't vote for Steve Carlton because he wouldn't give them the time of day?
    When a beer would taste good, have a Hudepohl :gac:

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    Re: Reds Hall of Famers announced

    I also find it amusing looking back at Bowie Kuhn's rejection of the Blue trade because it was not in the 'best interest of baseball". My how times have changed.
    When a beer would taste good, have a Hudepohl :gac:


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