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Thread: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

  1. #16
    got alil captain in u?
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    ahh the catcher combo is back hopefully they put up numbers like they did last year

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  3. #17
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Not a bad deal, but I'm still in favor of trading one of the catchers, chances are one is going to decline.

    As for Dunn..IMO Dan O has already decided to get rid of him, no deal will be done.
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  4. #18
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar
    I see your points.. I just don't understand why Dunn would come out and say he wants to stay in Cincinnati. But if he does feel as you suggest then if I am the Reds I sign him to a 1 year deal and let him go out and mash homeruns and then deal him. Not a Casey deal where you get nothing in return, but for a ligitament starter and prospects.
    I'm speculating, of course, but I think he is like a lot of guys who say things like this because they don't want to be seen as difficult. Moreover, it doesn't take much of a contrary message for the sports media to start reporting that a guy wants out of a place or is demanding a trade. Dunn knows he is bound to the Reds during his arbitration years unless he's traded. He loses nothing by saying he likes playing in Cincinnati unless and until he actually signs a long-term contract. He might still sign a long-term deal, but I can't imagine he would prefer to play in Cincinnati where he has lost every year when his hometown team just went to the World Series.

  5. #19
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Marc Lancaster just mentioned on the ORG board that he's posted news (not good) about the negotiations with Dunn on his blog. He's seeing the Reds taking care of a one year deal now, and worrying about long-term later, more by Dunn's choice than the FO's.

    As to Valentin, I suggested a couple of weeks ago that the Reds trade Valentin to the Pirates, who need a catcher, for Craig Wilson, who has no future for them, but I hesitated because Wilson's contract would take money away from what was available to sign Dunn. Now I'll stretch this idea to it's illogical absurdity.

    The Reds identify a decent pitching prospect in the lower levels of the Pirates' system, and trade Valentin and (here I'm dreaming) Womack to the Pirates for Wilson and said prospect. Although they have Freddy Sanchez, the Pirates list Jose Castillo, of the lifetime .303 obp (even worse than Womack's), as the starter on their depth chart, and, given some of their previous moves, would possibly consider bringing a veteran proven winner like Womack back to the team he started with as a positive thing.

    Now I know the Reds would never do this, at least under current management, but it's an idea I like, and I am allowed to dream.

  6. #20
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe
    Marc Lancaster just mentioned on the ORG board that he's posted news (not good) about the negotiations with Dunn on his blog. He's seeing the Reds taking care of a one year deal now, and worrying about long-term later, more by Dunn's choice than the FO's.

    As to Valentin, I suggested a couple of weeks ago that the Reds trade Valentin to the Pirates, who need a catcher, for Craig Wilson, who has no future for them, but I hesitated because Wilson's contract would take money away from what was available to sign Dunn. Now I'll stretch this idea to it's illogical absurdity.

    The Reds identify a decent pitching prospect in the lower levels of the Pirates' system, and trade Valentin and (here I'm dreaming) Womack to the Pirates for Wilson and said prospect. Although they have Freddy Sanchez, the Pirates list Jose Castillo, of the lifetime .303 obp (even worse than Womack's), as the starter on their depth chart, and, given some of their previous moves, would possibly consider bringing a veteran proven winner like Womack back to the team he started with as a positive thing.

    Now I know the Reds would never do this, at least under current management, but it's an idea I like, and I am allowed to dream.
    In most cases, there is no such thing as untradeable when it comes to players unless they are hurt for the entire duration of their contract and were never very good to start with (see Dreifort, Darren). I never bought that Sean Casey or Junior Griffey were unmovable. The "greater fool" is always out there hoping to resurrect what was. When it comes to trading Womack, unfortunately for the Reds, I'm afraid that the greatest fool is sitting in their front offices.

  7. #21
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Yeah. The problem at the moment is likely that the Reds have no desire to trade Womack, in spite of the comment I saw somewhere that there was a possibility of thinning out the second basemen via trade. Womack's probably the one that O'Brien most wants to hold on to.

    But there's always hope that after this week, a change is gonna come. At least I can hold that hope for the moment.

  8. #22
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Could the Reds trade Womack even if they wanted to?

    I thought you couldn't trade a newly-signed player until June 1. Maybe that was just for multi-year deals
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  9. #23
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    I thought Womack was still operating under the contract he signed last year with the Yankees (with NY picking up part of it). I could be confused, though.

  10. #24
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe
    I thought Womack was still operating under the contract he signed last year with the Yankees (with NY picking up part of it). I could be confused, though.
    You're 100% right. I forgot this was a trade. My bad.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  11. #25
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    If we accept a guy in trade who has a $2MM contract, and we accept $1MM in cash to help offset that contract, and we then trade that player to a new team, can we keep the money, making his new team responsible for the whole $2MM?
    Makes all the routine posts.

  12. #26
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland
    If we accept a guy in trade who has a $2MM contract, and we accept $1MM in cash to help offset that contract, and we then trade that player to a new team, can we keep the money, making his new team responsible for the whole $2MM?
    Only if they barter something that's worth the 1 million bucks. IIRC When the Marlins aquired Hampton they flipped him to the Braves for some players and they also undertook some of his salary to get betetr prospects.

  13. #27
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland
    If we accept a guy in trade who has a $2MM contract, and we accept $1MM in cash to help offset that contract, and we then trade that player to a new team, can we keep the money, making his new team responsible for the whole $2MM?
    You would have to pay another team the rest of Womack's salary to take him off your hands. Pittsburg might bite if they were only responsible for around $500,000 of his salary, and the Reds only asked for minor league roster filler in return.

  14. #28
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Womack at 1 million is not bad at all. We only gave up Howard for him - a marginal prospect that the Reds were never going to give a chance to anyhow. So, from the DanO point of view, it's not that bad of a move. Remember, we needed depth at infield. Even tough Womack has one of the worst OBP, he can semi-competently fill in at several positions (which is valuable on a team like the Reds that feels compelled to carry 12 pitchers).

    I agree there's a big risk that Narron will not use him properly though. Still, I don't see the urgent need to unload Womack.
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  15. #29
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Womack at 1 million is not bad at all. We only gave up Howard for him - a marginal prospect that the Reds were never going to give a chance to anyhow. So, from the DanO point of view, it's not that bad of a move. Remember, we needed depth at infield. Even tough Womack has one of the worst OBP, he can semi-competently fill in at several positions (which is valuable on a team like the Reds that feels compelled to carry 12 pitchers).

    I agree there's a big risk that Narron will not use him properly though. Still, I don't see the urgent need to unload Womack.
    I couldn't disagree more. Womack is one of the worst players in the major leagues. Just because he can stink at several positions doesn't make him valuable in any way.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  16. #30
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    Re: Reds avoid arbitration with Valentin

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Womack at 1 million is not bad at all. We only gave up Howard for him - a marginal prospect that the Reds were never going to give a chance to anyhow. So, from the DanO point of view, it's not that bad of a move. Remember, we needed depth at infield. Even tough Womack has one of the worst OBP, he can semi-competently fill in at several positions (which is valuable on a team like the Reds that feels compelled to carry 12 pitchers).

    I agree there's a big risk that Narron will not use him properly though. Still, I don't see the urgent need to unload Womack.
    You buy that vet crap more than anything else the front office sells you, I'd think by now that you'd have clued in to it like everything else that pushes your buttons about this organization.


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