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Thread: Baseball statistics: history or property?

  1. #16
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe
    That's fine, as long as on-base percentage and slugging are also free.
    OBP and slugging are a dollar each or two for $1.79.

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  3. #17
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    When MLB announces the attendance for the Reds opening day game this year, I'll be suing them. My attendace to the game created that statistic and therefore I own it. (I called dibs)

    GL

  4. #18
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Again, this isn't about charging ESPN or the Cincinnati enquirer for publishing stats. It's about charging TQStats for the right to charge people for the right to "purchase" Adam Dunn and the statistical profile that comes with him.

    Also, if MLB loses, it will certainly effect Strat-o-Matic and other text-based games that have paid licensing fees for years to sell a bunch of cards with nothing on the cards except a player's name and a bunch of numbers.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  5. #19
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Ah, I was just poking fun at MLB. As a player I would want to control those items as well.

    GL

  6. #20
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong
    Ah, I was just poking fun at MLB. As a player I would want to control those items as well.

    GL
    I gotcha. I wasn't just directing at you. And again, I hope that MLB will use. I just think it's going to be a close call.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  7. #21
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Am I understanding that currently Commercial Fantasy Leagues have to pay a licensing fee to MLB? If that's so, the only "loss" to the consumer is the status quo.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  8. #22
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Am I understanding that currently Commercial Fantasy Leagues have to pay a licensing fee to MLB? If that's so, the only "loss" to the consumer is the status quo.
    It's not that simple.

    IIRC, CBC, the plaintiff in this case, had always paid a licensing fee of 9% of profits to the players' association. Since the law was a little bit hazy, major fantasy sports companies always just forked over the dough, not wanting to compete in a legal battle with a union of millionaires.

    A couple years back, the players' association made a deal with MLB. The association agreed to assign all of its "fantasy" rights to MLB for a limited period of time (5 years maybe). MLB wanted to expand its fantasy games (beat the streak, etc), and thought it would be better if it could restrict the supply of fantasy games.

    After the 2004 season, MLB started sending out "cease and desist" letters to many of the fantasy sites.

    So to answer your question, MLB might try to make it so that there's no Yahoo leagues, no Sandbox leagues, no CDM leagues, etc. MLB will certainly try to bring all commercial fantasy leagues under its umbrella.

    Less supply. Higher price. Bad for consumer.

    Trust me, everyone here who plays in fantasy leagues (except for people who add up the stats themselves) should want MLB to lose.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  9. #23
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Every time there is an issue for this sort of thing in any professional league,
    does any ever notice how the NFL dodges all this?

    Pete Rozelle. Paul Tagilabue. WTG.

    So, baseballreference.com & my Baseball Encyclopedias are going to be moot after this, correct?
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  10. #24
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    So, baseballreference.com & my Baseball Encyclopedias are going to be moot after this, correct?
    I think it's a fair assumption that those sites are paying the license fees. Otherwise, MLB would have sicced its legal eagles upon them and smited them with a lawsuit.

    If anything, those sites are probably hoping that the "property" side wins, so that their competition will remain minimal. If the other side wins, look for a gold rush, as every link huckster in the land scurries to put up a baseball stats site that's chock full of ads.

  11. #25
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    The Game Thread would be in jeopardy, if it actually talked about the game.

  12. #26
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath

    So, baseballreference.com & my Baseball Encyclopedias are going to be moot after this, correct?
    Incorrect. I know it's complicated, but I intended for my summary above to draw the distinction.

    Baseball-reference does not pay licensing fees. Unless it had copy/pasted its data from another source, then it has not infringed an original work of authorship.

    Total baseball MIGHT pay some sort of licensing fees, but only for the use of "official" encyclopedia, the league logo etc.

    Anyone here is free to start his/her own Baseball Encyclopedia, provided they don't infringe another work of authorship (in non-legalese: don't arrange your pages substantially the same way as 'Total Baseball,' 'Big Blue,' etc).
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  13. #27
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003
    The Game Thread would be in jeopardy, if it actually talked about the game.
    Incorrect, provided that the courts held the same as NBA v. Motorola.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  14. #28
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    Every time there is an issue for this sort of thing in any professional league,
    does any ever notice how the NFL dodges all this?

    Remember that the players unions typically control the players' rights to publicity. In this unusual situation, the Baseball Players' union assigned the players "fantasy rights" to MLB for a limited number of years.

    CBC and other major fantasy sites probably do pay a minimial fee to the players' unions for the right to use the players' statistical profiles.

    This only became an issue because MLB decided it wanted to put the squeeze on fantasy sites so that it could jack up the licensing fees and PROBABLY ultimately bring almost all online fantasy games under its umbrella (Beat the streak, and all those silly games).
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  15. #29
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    Incorrect, provided that the courts held the same as NBA v. Motorola.

    I hear you. Just trying to be funny. International News Service vs. The Associated Press says you have to be making money at something you didn't collect yourself that threatens the other party's core business, and that's not the case with the fantasy leagues.

  16. #30
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball statistics: history or property?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003
    The Game Thread would be in jeopardy, if it actually talked about the game.
    We'd have to talk in code
    Go Gators!


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