Johnny Sain could pitch...............and he was considered one of the best pitching coaches ever.
He basically taught the same way Leo Mazzone taught. Influenced a lot of other pitching coaches.
I guess he knew how to explain his method without being pushy or my way or the highway.
Browning at least sounded like he had ideas when on the radio. He spoke of working on fastball location more than speed and arsenal, ala the Maddux/Mazzone talk above. Let's hope it pans out.
Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13, 15
University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12
Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98
“Everything that happens before Death is what counts.”
― Ray Bradbury, Something Wicked This Way Comes
That's what I've heard him talk about as well. I've heard more sensible comments about pitching from Browning that I've ever heard from paid members of the Reds organization.Originally Posted by Joseph
I agree with lollipop that ultimately what defines a great coach is how well he can mentally put himself into the shoes of the players he's coaching. Don't know if Browning or Soto can do that or not. That part we'll find out.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
It does seem to be the rule rather than the exception that the old saying "those who can, do, those who can't, teach" holds true in coaching. Most of the greatest coaches were truly forgettable players.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
I hope Soto can teach these guys to throw inside with an attitude. Some of my best memories growing up was Soto knocking a guy down, then striking him out. He pitched like the old-timers pitched...he OWNED the inner half of the plate. If you charged the mound...he would not back down either.If Soto can teach these pitchers how to use a changeup....then i am all for it.
I have said in the past, the changeup is, along with a well placed fastball, one of the best pitches to use on hitters. He had one of the best.
Browning can teach them how to sit on roofs and smoke the wacky weed.
1st pick of the 2023 baseball amateur draft
Isnt that Bucky "bleepin" Dent's job?
Yet, again, a RedsZoner has more knowledge than the people who run the team.
I agree M2.
I had a kid (13) in "little league" that threw a nasty, nasty 12-6 curveball. At that level that pitch is completely unhittable.
I wouldn't let him throw it. I explained to him how badly it would hurt his arm, and told him to learn how to locate his fastball, and when he got older it would make that curveball that much better.
I don't think the problem is that Browning is a jerk. I think the problem is that there are those with FIRST HAND experience who think Browning is a horrid coach. Team Clark has mentioned before he was on the coaching staff with Browning at the Florence Freedom and he has never said a kind word about Browning's coaching ability. Him or Sabo.
If they can't cut it at the Freedom, why should they be good enough for the Reds?
The flip side of that coin may be that Browning and/or Sabo aren't too impressed with Team Clark----they simply don't post their opinions here.
It's not my intention to slight TC here. I'm simply pointing out that there are two sides to the story and it's based upon one poster's opinion. Based on one opinion, I'm willing to keep an open mind.
Rem
Hmmm... I don't remember him that way myself, 1 HB every 67 innings after 1980, now Scott Sulliven 1 HB every 13 innings... he can tell ya how to pitch inside.
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs....601180312/1035
Browning, Soto guest instructors
By Marc Lancaster
Post staff reporter
The inspiration came from Johnny Bench - or, more specifically, the reaction to Johnny Bench.
Every year, the Hall of Fame catcher pays a visit to Reds spring training, and in the words of general manager Dan O'Brien, "heads turn." Major league and minor league players alike respond to Bench's presence and the advice he offers, whether in a group pep talk or one-on-one instruction.
With that in mind, the pitching-poor Reds are summoning two successful hurlers from their past to Sarasota this year, hoping Mario Soto and Tom Browning will make a similar impact in a more structured role. The two former All-Stars will serve as guest instructors during spring training, providing specialized guidance to the current crop of arms. Soto, for instance, will focus on how he used his legendary changeup.
"Obviously a number of guys have shared with us that they've been able to pick up bits and pieces from Johnny that they find valuable," said O'Brien. "All we're trying to do is bring in other past Reds that we think have something to offer from a coaching point of view."
Soto already works for the Reds as a pitching instructor at their academy in the Dominican Republic. Browning, the top vote-getter in this year's Reds Hall of Fame class, is not employed by the organization but has maintained an active role in the community.
Last edited by Unassisted; 01-18-2006 at 11:45 AM.
My take always was that Browning was reacting to the horrid situation around him with that club. It sounded to me like Browning simply refused to act like a mess wasn't a mess. Probably should have known better than to take the job in the first place, but I'm not going to look past the potential positives he brings because he wasn't a good fit with a Frontier League club.
Aside from that, I don't know too many talented people with expertise who'd work an entry-level position even it was in a well-run organization.
Think about it, you make good money as a baseball player and then those that have something to contribute back to the game are asked to work for peanuts in backwaters where they're sometimes not even involved in prospect development. Why bother? It's like asking someone who's been on an executive board to sweep up. It seems like a perfect way to drive away excellence and reward dogged mediocrity.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...601190316/1071
By John Fay
Enquirer staff writer
The first spring training with Bob Castellini as CEO of the Reds will have franchise Hall of Famers Tom Browning and Mario Soto as instructors.
The Reds have been short on former players in camp in recent years. Plans to change that were made after Castellini agreed to purchase controlling interest in the club.
"Johnny Bench called me right after that and said they wanted me to go to work," Browning said.
"I was thankful. I'm pumped."
Bench has met with Castellini and has served as a liaison to Browning and Soto.
Castellini cannot comment on team-related issues until he officially takes over. Major-league owners are expected to approve the sale of the Reds to Castellini today.
Castellini already has met with numerous Reds employees, including the on-the-field staff.
In a meeting last week with manager Jerry Narron and the coaching staff, Castellini made it clear he wants to tap into the Reds' rich tradition.
"He talked about that," Narron said. "It's well-founded. I think from being with the Cardinals he saw (the benefit of having) Stan Musial and Red Schoendienst around all the time."
Other than coaches, Bench, who is a special consultant to the general manager, has been the only former Red in uniform at spring training the past couple of years. Ken Griffey Sr. has been at camp, but he hasn't been in uniform since he went from being a coach to a special consultant.
"I know how much the players enjoy being around Johnny," Narron said.
To have more players, all the Reds had to do was ask.
"A lot of guys would love to get involved," Browning said. "But they didn't want to go begging. If the Reds asked, they'd be glad to do it."
Dave Concepcion has expressed interest in being part of the spring camp. Bench, who was out of town and unavailable for comment, has broached the subject of Joe Morgan, now an ESPN analyst, coming to Sarasota.
"That would be a tough sell," Browning said. "But it would be great if he did come."
Narron, a self-described baseball guy, is all for former stars returning.
"When I was manager of the (Texas) Rangers, I had Nolan Ryan in," Narron said.
"Taking advantage of former players can only help the organization."
Castellini impressed the coaches and Narron in his meeting with them.
"He's a no-nonsense guy," third base coach Mark Berry said. "He knows what's going on in baseball. He wanted to get what we thought about the players."
Castellini, even before officially taking over, has proven to be a more hands-on owner. Outgoing CEO Carl Lindner never met with the coaches.
Castellini gave the coaches no indication of major changes in payroll or personnel.
"We got the impression that (Castellini) was going to hold everyone accountable," Berry said. "That's the way it should be."
My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!
Ok, how long before we can bring Larkin back into the fold? I don't think we can see him in 2006, but if Allen & O'Brien are gone, we might see him in 2007.
It seems like we could have someone that can understand the value of the old-timer passing along some hard earned knowledge.
Hell, I think its gotta be fun for the players just to listen to their stories ... it also helps the realize they are there on the back of the those that went before them.
GL
I would imagine that's right.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
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