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Thread: Thanks Mr. Lindner

  1. #31
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    It was the "right" time for him to sell. His 5 year tax break was up, thus profits would go down. He took out a heck of a lot more than he put in...he managed the Reds as purely a business venture. That's not necessarly a bad thing, but that should be his legacy as an owner.

    On a side-the last 2 owners we've had infer the team was this close to moving. This creates a good amount of good will from the public. Surely the new guy won't infer this....right?

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  3. #32
    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper
    It was the "right" time for him to sell. His 5 year tax break was up, thus profits would go down. He took out a heck of a lot more than he put in...
    Once again...

    Business profits are taxed at roughly 40%.

    And that's the way that multi-millionaires get to be multi-millionaires: by paying 40% for their cash.

    Or twice what someone would pay by taking a cash advance on a run of the mill credit card.


  4. #33
    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    And when you think about it, boobs have a pretty easy job. Competency should be assumed.
    Hmmm...

    In some contexts, the bigger the boob, the better.

    In others, not so much.

    Quite the Friday afternoon paradox to ponder.

  5. #34
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan
    Once again...

    Business profits are taxed at roughly 40%.

    And that's the way that multi-millionaires get to be multi-millionaires: by paying 40% for their cash.
    Carl more than doubled his money in 5 years, thanks to the generousity of the taxpayers. It was as close to a zero risk investment as could be had.
    So, it was smart to cash out.

    I don't understand why you'd say he wouldn't cash out a profit just because of taxes. You shouldn't make investment decisions primarily on taxes.
    That's like saying we shouldn't have a job, because we have to pay roughly 40% in state, federal, FICA, etc.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #35
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    15Fan: i thought owners got a break their first 5 years of ownership and then when the 5 year period was over they assumed more of a tax burden...is that not correct? My post was only there to point out the issue of timing re: 5 years. I'm quite area that multi-millionaires assume a huge amount of the tax burden. I'm also aware they've become millionaires because they are smart business men who know how to use the tax code to take as much advantage financially as possible (as they should). What's your point?

  7. #36
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    I guess, as usual, I can't agree.

    I love your post '62.....well said and very classy.

    But come on.....the city builds Carl a brand new stadium for 30 mill (on his part) and we are supposed to be happy that instead of dog droppings we got teams that smelled up the place worse? I don't think so.

    Carl was a bad owner (from almost 3,000 miles away). As woy alluded to, he might have done lots for the city that I didn't see, and thus, he might have been good for the city overall.....but I prefer Marge to him any day.

    Sure Marge was a loose cannon, a drunk (it appeared), and a cranky old lady.....but she believed in winning and taking no prisoners. She may have angered the writers by cutting off their perks, and she may have had no clue what scouts did.....but she hired good people and expected nothing less than winning.

    Carl had no clue what anybody around baseball did....or does. Carl, thanks I guess....but go back to insurance and bananas. Welcome Mr. Castellini!
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  8. #37
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    but she hired good people and expected nothing less than winning.
    Bullcrap, her start involved cutting the scouting staff and advertising revenue. The woman stole from the team and her partners and the franchise is still reeling from it today.

    Do yourself a favor an pick up "Baseball by The Billions learn some of the "real" things about Marge and get past her one year of success.

  9. #38
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792

    It was just flat out embarrassing.

    Lindner's ownership was a nightmare, from beginning to end. That's how I'll remember it.

  10. #39
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Bullcrap, her start involved cutting the scouting staff and advertising revenue. The woman stole from the team and her partners and the franchise is still reeling from it today.

    Do yourself a favor an pick up "Baseball by The Billions learn some of the "real" things about Marge and get past her one year of success.
    Pontificating as usual woy......how do I stand living without these personal moments we share?

    I don't think I would call a 1990 World Championship and two wining teams in 1994 and 1995 as her one success. If Carl had managed the same, I would have thought him a great owner be sad to see him go.

    The point has been made......in the 90's the rest of baseball might have laughed at Marge......but at least they didn't laugh at the Reds.

    And for all of the awful things you say she did, the farm system....sans the scouts....produced well enough to stock some pretty good teams.....and on top of that, Marge went and got the people she wanted when she needed them.

    Lindner thought the Reds existed to make him money. Marge thought they existed to win.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  11. #40
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    He didn't know a damn thing about baseball. He trusted Bowden over the protests of Allen on signing Junior.
    Yep. But I don't recall that he came in saying he did either. And that statement can be said about alot of owners (maybe a majority), including Steinbrenner. It's their ability to be able to hire, place, and entrust.... and in Georgie's case -fire!....those people in the organization that do know the game. And that is where Lindner was in over his head. He was a businessman (which again, alot are). It was stated in an article I read yesterday that summed up Lindner's tenure and approach to the game, and were his own words..... "I'm not here to make money. But I don't want to lose it either."

    He placed or trusted people in those FO positions to do a job, but as you already mentioned, he also, at times, intervened, thwarted them, and made them look bad (such as with the Larkin deal).

    I believe he really did care about the fans and wanted to do what was right. That is why you saw deals like Griffey, Larkin, Casey. These guys were/all fan favorites. They put butts in the seats, and why people brought their kids to the game. In that sense, his approach, or maybe a better word is "evaluation" of why people come to the games and follow a team was skewered or incomplete. What the fans want more then anything is a winner on that field.

    I see where one of Castellini's first moves was to move Allen from the baseball side to the business side of the organization. This may be his "graceful" way of giving Allen the gradual exit out. But then again, it also might be where Allen should have been all along because whether people want to acknowledge it or not, there is that business angle of the game. And Allen, IMO, is a numbers" guy and should be very good at it. His job is (or should be) to simply "count the beans" and report to the ownership group on that status/situation. What they (and the GM) then do with it is then their business.

    So we'll see.

    But as with Castellini, as it was with Lindner, it is still gonna come down to who you are placing in those FO positions, and who you are trusting to restore it. His "one up" on Lindner is that he, and the Williams', comes from a baseball "rich" family with a tradition/love and knowledge of the game. We'll see how strong their desire is to win. With Lindner, he seemed to have simply purchased the Reds so that an "outside" owner wouldn't. That is really not a solid reason to be buying a franchise IMO. Good intention, but we all know what good intentions can get you.

    I wish him well. I always felt the guy has a good heart and wanted to do what was right for the city and fans.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  12. #41
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    I'll never forget when he ordered Kullman/Maddox to deal some of our players for cash at the 2003 trading deadline.
    Yeah, but in the long run, and when you look at what happened to those players (as well as what they were trying to get money-wise), show me where we screwed up in any of that "fire sale"?

    The fire sale didn't bother me one bit. It was who they went out and got to replace those players (especially in the BP). Now that sucked!
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  13. #42
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la
    I guess, as usual, I can't agree.

    I love your post '62.....well said and very classy.

    But come on.....the city builds Carl a brand new stadium for 30 mill (on his part) and we are supposed to be happy that instead of dog droppings we got teams that smelled up the place worse? I don't think so.

    Carl was a bad owner (from almost 3,000 miles away). As woy alluded to, he might have done lots for the city that I didn't see, and thus, he might have been good for the city overall.....but I prefer Marge to him any day.

    Sure Marge was a loose cannon, a drunk (it appeared), and a cranky old lady.....but she believed in winning and taking no prisoners. She may have angered the writers by cutting off their perks, and she may have had no clue what scouts did.....but she hired good people and expected nothing less than winning.

    Carl had no clue what anybody around baseball did....or does. Carl, thanks I guess....but go back to insurance and bananas. Welcome Mr. Castellini!

    Marge also was not a baseball person and didn't know squat about the game (except that the ball was round). Yes, she won a WS in '90. Even a stray dog finds a bone every once in awhile. She then, proceeded to run this organization from every angle, business,financial viability, farm system, etc., right into the ground, while being a HUGE embarassment to the team and this city.

    At least Lindner did bring back some fiscal sanity to this organization, and was instrumental in rebuilding the "physical" house on the outside with new facilities in GAB and also Louisville and Dayton. Whether one wants to acknowledge it or not, that is a start. But again, he, nor his FO staff didn't have the baseball knowledge and know-how to acuire the inner parts that make it a success. That is where they failed.

    There is no reason why this organization cannot be consistently a winning, or at least a competitive organization, when I see similar franchises doing the same, such as Oakland, Cleveland, Minnesota, and Florida. It's not simply about spending more and more money. It's having smart people in that FO who can spend it wisely, evaluate talent, and build from there.

    With Lindner, Allen, and Dano in place, and IMO, we could have had a 90 Mil payroll and still been losers. Amd some would have been saying "You need to open your pockets and spend more!"
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  14. #43
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    And when you think about it, boobs have a pretty easy job.
    No they don't ....... and they completely screw with your billiards game!

  15. #44
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    OK, I've read all the same angles over and over LET'S try a new angle. WHO does everyone think was the best owner the REDS. How do they compare?

  16. #45
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    Re: Thanks Mr. Lindner

    Pontificating as usual woy......how do I stand living without these personal moments we share?
    Kiss my rear RILA, maybe someday you'll learn something.

    Chances aren't looking very good though.


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