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Thread: I for one LOVED what I heard

  1. #46
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    TB, once you know the what, and who was in charge of the baseball and/or business operation when the what happened, then the how and the why become immaterial.

    You're right that multiple things need fixing with the organization, all the more reason not to waste time on getting the right executive team in place. Get good leadership in place and let it start sifting through the underlings and processes. Like I said, Castellini didn't have to sack Allen and O'Brien yesterday, but if he had done it, it would have been to roaring approval.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #47
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    I don't think reporting structures are critical at all. They make it sound big to make people think big changes are in order, but they're window dressing, IMO. DanO is still making the baseball decisions and John Allen is still making the financial decisions. Sounds like more of the same to me.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  4. #48
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    I don't think reporting structures are critical at all. They make it sound big to make people think big changes are in order, but they're window dressing, IMO. DanO is still making the baseball decisions and John Allen is still making the financial decisions. Sounds like more of the same to me.
    No.

    Previously John Allen was making and/or forcing every decision on both sides, business and baseball. Mr. Lindner may have known about his decisions in advance, but was so clueless about baseball that he believed everything he was fed and trusted JA to do what was best for the organization (big mistake). Only when a decision loomed huge or reflected on him personally did he thwart John Allen's posture (Larkin, Griffey, the Reds Hall of Fame come to mind off the top of my head).

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Get good leadership in place and let it start sifting through the underlings and processes. Like I said, Castellini didn't have to sack Allen and O'Brien yesterday, but if he had done it, it would have been to roaring approval.
    I firmly believe he plans on doing just that. Unfortunately, several of his partners have yet to be approved by MLB. Any idea on how long that will take?

    I still don't agree with you on the merit of firing JA and DOB on his first day at the helm.

    - Would it have sent a positive message to die-hard fans?... maybe, though I'm not thoroughly convinced.

    - Would it have sent a positive message to the Reds franchise and all the other higher-ups that attended yesterday's press conference? I don't think so. In fact, I more believe it would have alienated a lot of people that Mr. Castellini may need support from in the future.

    An enlightened, baseball-savvy leader is wanted/needed; a tyrant is not.
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  5. #49
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions. The only evidence I've seen is that Allen made the decision to retain Dave Miley. Other than that, there's no evidence of him influencing DanO's player decisions, yet everyone keeps throwing it out there like it's gospel. Where does this belief come from? Having him report to someone else isn't going to magically transform him into John Schuerholz.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  6. #50
    Member harangatang's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions. The only evidence I've seen is that Allen made the decision to retain Dave Miley. Other than that, there's no evidence of him influencing DanO's player decisions, yet everyone keeps throwing it out there like it's gospel. Where does this belief come from? Having him report to someone else isn't going to magically transform him into John Schuerholz.
    I guess we'll all find out in the next year.

  7. #51
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions. The only evidence I've seen is that Allen made the decision to retain Dave Miley. Other than that, there's no evidence of him influencing DanO's player decisions, yet everyone keeps throwing it out there like it's gospel. Where does this belief come from? Having him report to someone else isn't going to magically transform him into John Schuerholz.
    Maybe familiarity will breed contempt.


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  8. #52
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    It was stated that John Allen ultimately approved (or not) all business and baseball decisions.

    From ESPN article (we've seen/heard it from other sources too):

    Castellini's first move was to change the front office's structure. Chief operating officer John Allen will stay but will focus on the business side of the ballclub. General manager Dan O'Brien will run the baseball side, reporting directly to Castellini.

    Under previous owner Carl Lindner, Allen ran the entire operation and reported directly to the owner. Castellini bought control of the team from Lindner in November, a transaction approved Thursday by major league baseball owners.
    Last edited by TeamBoone; 01-21-2006 at 11:10 PM.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  9. #53
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Approval does not at all mean he made the decisions. Allen's approval is a formality and is based entirely on the budget. There's not a GM out there who doesn't have to gain approval from someone for deals they make. The only difference is Castellini will approve them directly now instead of Allen. Same thing.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  10. #54
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    My main fear being that Allen shot down a lot of terrible deals, with if new owner man approves them
    Go Gators!

  11. #55
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Everyone keeps saying that John Allen somehow forcing Dano's decisions. I'm not aware of any evidence that John Allen had anything to do with Dano's player decisions.
    Barry Larkin said something to that effect.

  12. #56
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    This statement alone is enough to dash my hopes.

    "General manager Dan O'Brien will run the baseball side"

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ds.owner.0411/
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  13. #57
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    Of course he has. And every single employee has been on their best behavior everytime he's been around.

    I know how it works... I was on that end when the company I worked for was purchased by another. Once he moves in, he'll see how it really works.
    I was on that end 2 times where I used to work. Eventually the wheat gets separted from the chaff [sorry for the cliche]. Those employees who wrongly profitted or benefitted in the status quo would be gone, either fired or resigned. In the meantime, there is a very important period of time before a overhall takes place - even employees that will be fired have to do their job before the axe falls - the company has to keep working. This transition period happens not only in takeovers, but in downsizing and outsourcing as well.

    The knowledge that Allen and O'Brien [yes, they do have knowledge ] have about how the team works now, what's on the agenda, etc. is very valuable. The key is getting that knowledge before they do damage. I don't think that Allen or O'Brien are vindicitive people but you never know. They, and others need to be watched carefully. But on the plus side, they have been put on notice.
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  14. #58
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    I still don't agree with you on the merit of firing JA and DOB on his first day at the helm.

    - Would it have sent a positive message to die-hard fans?... maybe, though I'm not thoroughly convinced.

    - Would it have sent a positive message to the Reds franchise and all the other higher-ups that attended yesterday's press conference? I don't think so. In fact, I more believe it would have alienated a lot of people that Mr. Castellini may need support from in the future.

    An enlightened, baseball-savvy leader is wanted/needed; a tyrant is not.
    First off, the city brahmins will like Bob as long as he throws a good cocktail party.

    Second, if everybody's going to cheer when you whack these guys then why waste time? That's not a tyrant, that's a liberator.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  15. #59
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Second, if everybody's going to cheer when you whack these guys then why waste time? That's not a tyrant, that's a liberator.
    That made me laugh.... liberator. In theory, you're absolutely right, I just don't see it done in practice very often.

    I do think that at least DOB will be gone... sooner rather than later. Maybe not, just a feeling. Or if JA really was the guy behind some of these disappointing acquisitions and he is now out of the picture in that regard, who knows? Maybe DOB is smarter than any of us think (though I sincerely doubt it).

    I guess we'll see... again, hopefully sooner rather than later.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  16. #60
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: I for one LOVED what I heard

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    That made me laugh.... liberator. In theory, you're absolutely right, I just don't see it done in practice very often.

    I do think that at least DOB will be gone... sooner rather than later. Maybe not, just a feeling. Or if JA really was the guy behind some of these disappointing acquisitions and he is now out of the picture in that regard, who knows? Maybe DOB is smarter than any of us think (though I sincerely doubt it).

    I guess we'll see... again, hopefully sooner rather than later.
    It definitely would have been bold and aggressive. My argument is that bold and aggressive is exactly what Reds fans are up for at this point in time. Everything folks like about Castellini's press conference touches upon the notion that he's going to be bold and aggressive.

    I don't fault him for not taking it farther on his first day, but he'd be the king of Cincinnati if he had.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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