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Thread: Could this not be DanO's fault???

  1. #1
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    Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Pretend DanO knows baseball. Pretend he wants to do all the right things. Then, right when it is all about to happen, someone else shuts it down.

    John Allen has essentially been the GM of this team for years. DanO could have possibly never had full control of the baseball operations and he never would have had a chance. Maybe this is why it doesn't matter who our GM is while Allen has control.

    Kffl.com
    Reds | Allen's Role Redefined
    Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:29:17 -0800

    New Cincinnati Reds owner Bob Castellini has decided to keep chief operating officer John Allen, but he will focus exclusively on the business side of the ballclub, according to the Associated Press. Under previous owner Carl Lindner, Allen ran the entire operation, including the baseball side of the ballclub, and reported directly to the owner.
    This makes me ill thinking that he had this much control. Maybe this year will be DanO's real chance to do something. He had a good draft last year (from what we can tell from now) and hopefully will be solid again this year.

    Opinions? And let them make sense, don't tell me about DanO's binders or any crap like that. Make this a serious baseball discussion.

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  3. #2
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    I seriously doubt Dan O was ordered to flush 25 mill away on Milton, or bring back Aurilia instead off getting a draft pick, or trading for Womack when we have no need for him.

    If anything, Allen may have stopped Dan O from making even worse deals.
    Go Gators!

  4. #3
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    I think this is a separate topic so I will keep it here rather than in a different thread.

    We don't know WHAT influence Allen might have had. Obviously, he was in a position to have a tremendous amount. I am willing to give OBrien this year and evaluate him on what he does with Allen no longer around. But the moves had better improve dramatically and had better be more frequent if that is the case.

    Everyone deserves a chance. Maybe not a long one, but at least a chance. I can see why Castenelli wouldn't throw him under the bus just yet. Remember, this is OBrien's first GM job. He has been learning on the job too.

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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Extend DanO!

    I'll get a lot more work done

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    Member GADawg's Avatar
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    sadly baseball seems to be ALL business nowadays so maybe one of you can explain to me exactly what part of the organization is broken out as strictly the business side. Although DanO will be reporting directly to the top I still don't see how personel decisions could be implemented without Allen's stamp of approval.

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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    It does seem to be all business these days but this is a new group taking over and they might have more gumption to make the Reds a competitive club again. Lindner has been in the money side of things for a long long time and IMO, I don't think he was very excited about the game. It will take more than one season to turn things around and especially getting things in order this late in the off season.

    If DanO has a real grip on getting the right people in the right places and he didn't have that control before it will also be the next off season before he can make real changes. This being the case I suspect we're going with primarily the team roster we see now. If the Reds make it to the All Star game with a chance to take the division we may see what the new ownership is about.

  8. #7
    Your killin' me Smalls! StillFunkyB's Avatar
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    I honestly think it's a HUGE thing that DanO wasn't at the presser yesterday.

    HUGE.

    To me, that gives me hope. Why would the general manager of the team not be at the press conference to announce new ownership?

    I hope it is because he was at home, packing.
    "And the fact that watching him pitch is like having someone poop on your soul." FCB on Gary Majewski

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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Dano will get this year to show he finallly has turned the baseball operations around. If not, then that advisor role that new ownership offered Lou Piniella might just turn into a GM job.

    If ownership was happy with O'Brien, then why is one of the Williams' sons, Joe, moving in the GM office?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  10. #9
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    Dano will get this year to show he finallly has turned the baseball operations around. If not, then that advisor role that new ownership offered Lou Piniella might just turn into a GM job.

    If ownership was happy with O'Brien, then why is one of the Williams' sons, Joe, moving in the GM office?
    DanO's as good as gone, he's had his chances for the last 2 years. If Cast and Co. was going to keep him in town, he would have been there yesterday.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton
    Extend DanO!

    I'll get a lot more work done
    Dan O for productivity

    Has a nice ring to it
    Go Gators!

  12. #11
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Quote Originally Posted by StillFunkyB
    I honestly think it's a HUGE thing that DanO wasn't at the presser yesterday.

    HUGE.

    To me, that gives me hope. Why would the general manager of the team not be at the press conference to announce new ownership?

    I hope it is because he was at home, packing.
    It may be because Castellini knew that there would be direct questions about the reorganization and frank discussion about the state of the club. So, in a show of class, he asked DanO and Allen to stay away.

    Here in Boston, John Henry did a similar thing last November, asking Larry Lucchino to stay away, when he held a press conference about the Theo situation.

    But getting back to the beginning of the thread.

    1. I agree with others above who say that it's unlikely Allen "ordered" the Eric Milton signing and some of the other most costly moves.

    2. DanO assumed the risk of this happening when he took the job. Even if he really, really, really wanted a GM job, it was well established that Allen and/or Lindner had a penchant for meddling. The Pete Rose questions in the interview should have been a dead giveaway, Dan. There are probably reasons why other interviewees (Mike Port, IIRC) said publicly that "it wasn't a good fit" on the very next day.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili
    1. I agree with others above who say that it's unlikely Allen "ordered" the Eric Milton signing and some of the other most costly moves.

    I have believed that Allen was the problem for many years even more than the ownership. Maybe Allen didn't order him to sign Milton but he might have ordered him to make a big splash in the free agency market with pitiching...and did so after most of the other big names were already signed. We know that Milton wasn't DanOs first choice from the articles on Casey getting everyone that DanO wanted except one pitcher. I'm not a fan of DanO but I dislike Allen more than JimBo, Carl, and Marge rolled into one.
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  14. #13
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Allen was given a job he wasn't qualified to do. No way on earth he should oversee the baseball side. He's a bean counter, not a baseball man.

    Lindner made the mistake of letting Allen have that much power over things he was unqualified to supervise.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  15. #14
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    Here's how you kill a sports organization.

    1. Sell it to an owner who wants to use it to further their own life and other business's that are in no way connected to baseball. Then let said owner be President of the team.

    2. Continue relationship for over one decade.

    3. Once in state of confusion hand keys over to a conservative accountant with no baseball side experience and install him as president.

    4. Continue for a 5 years

    5. Sell team to a man who made his fortune when most TV's were Philco's.

    6. Retain conservative accountant as link between field and owner

    7. Not awaken aforementioned owner

    8. Continue for 5 years.

    9. Allow conservative accountant to spearhead move into new facility, said move eventually pushes the baseball side of the business beneath the moneyside in accountants mind. From that moment on accountant will let non baseball side of business trump all baseball sides of the business.

    10. Hiring a GM because he's a Bizzaro version of Jim Bowden. We know the Reds wanted stability after Bowden, but the mismanagment of that transaction was worthy of the Italian goverment.


    Most fine organizations have VP's or Presidents that layer between the GM and the owners, for instance the Reds had Howsam as a VP, but he was a great businessman and baseball man.

    If Dan O reports to the owner it seems to me that the owner will go and first find the new conduit. Whether it's a president/VP who will get a GM or a GM that will fill both roles who knows?

    But the Reds can't have just handed Dan O the keys to every room based on his work history in Cincinnati. That would be madness.

  16. #15
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    Re: Could this not be DanO's fault???

    I'm a big believer that removing Allen makes no difference in wins and losses for the Reds.

    Baseball minds--they are the lightning bolts to rend the murk that encloses this club.


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