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Thread: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

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    Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Reds trade OF Austin Kearns to the Tribe for LHP Jermey Sowers?

    With the Tribe willing to trade OF Coca Crisp to the Red Sox for 3rd baseman Andy Marte and RHP Mota, they could be looking for an outfielder. They are in discussions with the Phillies for OF Jason Michael but there is no guarantee that deal would go down.

    If you're the Reds, would you part with Kearns in order to get Sowers?
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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Yes.

    They wouldn't.
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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Cleveland would never make that trade. I'm not sure they would trade Sowers for Adam Dunn. That's no slam on Adam Dunn, just how valuable a potential stud pitcher is to a team who will live or die with how they develop internal talent like the Indians have committed to. The sad thing is, Sowers and Scott Kazmir would be in our rotation in 2006 had Jim Bowden not been our GM and spent their money on David Espinosa, Dane Sardinha, and Dustin Moseley.

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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    Yes.

    They wouldn't.
    What Krono said.

    Though I should add that if Cleveland really wants a power hitting corner OF then it's a fair offer, just that teams are climbing way too far up the butts of their top prospects these days.
    Last edited by M2; 01-22-2006 at 05:46 PM.
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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Cleveland would never make that trade. I'm not sure they would trade Sowers for Adam Dunn. That's no slam on Adam Dunn, just how valuable a potential stud pitcher is to a team who will live or die with how they develop internal talent like the Indians have committed to. The sad thing is, Sowers and Scott Kazmir would be in our rotation in 2006 had Jim Bowden not been our GM and spent their money on David Espinosa, Dane Sardinha, and Dustin Moseley.
    Don't forget to include Allen and Lindner in there. They controlled the purse strings.
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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Actually, Sowers, while a nice top of the rotation prospect is still a pitching prospect with all the inherent risk. Given the fact that I read something about CLE wanting to find another OF BEFORE they deal Crisp, and the big need at 3B for CLE, OB needs to pick up the phone right now and make the offer. Who knows? They just might bite.

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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Cleveland would never make that trade. I'm not sure they would trade Sowers for Adam Dunn. That's no slam on Adam Dunn, just how valuable a potential stud pitcher is to a team who will live or die with how they develop internal talent like the Indians have committed to. The sad thing is, Sowers and Scott Kazmir would be in our rotation in 2006 had Jim Bowden not been our GM and spent their money on David Espinosa, Dane Sardinha, and Dustin Moseley.
    I'm sorry, are you saying Dunn wouldn't net Sowers? Excuse me if I get a 'lil miffed but I wouldn't "Just" accept Sowers from Cleveland for OF Adam Dunn.
    Now, Sean Casey should have netted LHP Oliver Perez, but instead an incompetent GM settled for LHP Dave Williams...

    Adam Dunn is the cornerstone for Cincinnati, and now that the New Ownership has taken over....Don't look for Dunner to be playing in another city...

    Yeah, Sowers, Sabethia, and Westbrook, and I will give you Dunn, and Womack....

    Yeah, that is how absurd "The Tribe wouldn't give up Sowers for Dunn." is...

    If that ever happened, and it was a straight up deal...and Shapiro said No to Dan O, Shapiro would be fired the very next day...

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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Cleveland would never make that trade. I'm not sure they would trade Sowers for Adam Dunn. That's no slam on Adam Dunn, just how valuable a potential stud pitcher is to a team who will live or die with how they develop internal talent like the Indians have committed to. The sad thing is, Sowers and Scott Kazmir would be in our rotation in 2006 had Jim Bowden not been our GM and spent their money on David Espinosa, Dane Sardinha, and Dustin Moseley.
    Except BOTH of those guys were high school pitchers at the time, who the Reds had no business taking the risks on.
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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21
    Except BOTH of those guys were high school pitchers at the time, who the Reds had no business taking the risks on.
    Two things to take into consideration with those two picks. Kazmir was considered the best arm in the 2002 draft. I still think the right pick was princeton's suggestion of Jeff Francis, but Kazmir did fit the Kerry Wood/Josh Beckett profile of pure dominance.

    Sowers was a #20 pick and the Reds had a well-regarded system at the time (though obviously that was mostly due to position talent). Once you get past 15 picks, the draft becomes a lot less certain, which makes a HS a better bet in relative terms than it is higher in the first round.

    Only five of the next 20 guys taken have really amounted to much and some could still go either way.

    So they were fairly solid high risk investments had the Reds actually invested.
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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo
    Now, Sean Casey should have netted LHP Oliver Perez, but instead an incompetent GM settled for LHP Dave Williams...
    God I'm tired of hearing this. Listen man, the Pirates never would've given up Perez for Casey. I don't think even Wily Mo or Austin would've been enough to get him. The best the Reds were gonna get from the Pirates for Sean was Williams. They wouldn't even have been able to get Fogg or Wells for him.

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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by VI_RedsFan
    The best the Reds were gonna get from the Pirates for Sean was Williams. They wouldn't even have been able to get Fogg or Wells for him.
    Then they should have kept Casey and dealt Kearns or Pena.
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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Yes I would probable do Kearns for Sowers but I don't think Cleveland would do it. I read on MLB rumors B. Arroyo was rumored to Tampa Bay so why not try to acquire him! What would we give up?

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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Then they should have kept Casey and dealt Kearns or Pena.
    Yep, maybe they should've. But my point was that the people on this board who think Oliver Perez could've been had for Casey are wrong.

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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo
    I'm sorry, are you saying Dunn wouldn't net Sowers? Excuse me if I get a 'lil miffed but I wouldn't "Just" accept Sowers from Cleveland for OF Adam Dunn.

    Now, Sean Casey should have netted LHP Oliver Perez, but instead an incompetent GM settled for LHP Dave Williams...

    Adam Dunn is the cornerstone for Cincinnati, and now that the New Ownership has taken over....Don't look for Dunner to be playing in another city...

    Yeah, that is how absurd "The Tribe wouldn't give up Sowers for Dunn." is...

    If that ever happened, and it was a straight up deal...and Shapiro said No to Dan O, Shapiro would be fired the very next day...
    Yes, I am saying that I don't think that Mark Shapiro would trade Jeremy Sowers straight up for Adam Dunn. Not that it wouldn't be a good deal for the Indians on the field, but it would go against everything that makes the Indians a success story and Mark Shapiro the best GM out there (IMO). The reason they wouldn't make that trade has nothing to do with performance, but with financial balance. If the Reds took Aaron Boone along with Sowers, the Indians would do the deal. Mark Shapiro would not add $9M to his budget and give up a commodity like Sowers. It would be like Dan O'Brien trading Homer Bailey for Lance Berkman. Might be a great trade today, but GM's just don't make those types of trades. I agree Dunn is our cornerstone, and he should be locked up long term.

    Regarding Casey for Williams, Dan O'Brien got what he could for an overweight, underperforming player with a $8.5M albatross around his neck. It would have taken Adam Dunn to have gotten Oliver Perez in a down year for Perez.
    Last edited by dougflynn23; 01-22-2006 at 08:28 PM.

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    Re: Would You Do This Deal With The Tribe?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Yes, I am saying that I don't think that Mark Shapiro would trade Jeremy Sowers straight up for Adam Dunn. Not that it wouldn't be a good deal for the Indians on the field, but it would go against everything that makes the Indians a success story and Mark Shapiro the best GM out there (IMO). The reason they wouldn't make that trade has nothing to do with performance, but with financial balance. If the Reds took Aaron Boone along with Sowers, the Indians would do the deal. Mark Shapiro would not add $9M to his budget and give up a commodity like Sowers. It would be like Dan O'Brien trading Homer Bailey for Lance Berkman. Might be a great trade today, but GM's just don't make those types of trades. I agree Dunn is our cornerstone, and he should be locked up long term.
    Point of order- Mark Shapiro has not rebuilt the Indians by turning a goodly portion of internal prospects into MLB players (they had only four internal contributors on that team last season). He's not "build from within". He's wheel-and-deal. And if he needs something big, he'd be silly to latch his claws into a prospect rather than ship him out for a guy who can put him over the top.

    Shapiro has done an exceptional job of turning spendy MLB talent into high-level on-the-cusp prospects. But I fail to see why he wouldn't know that when a team gets close, sometimes they need to do the opposite.

    Regarding Casey for Williams, Dan O'Brien got what he could for an overweight, underperforming player with a $8.5M albatross around his neck. It would have taken Adam Dunn to have gotten Oliver Perez in a down year for Perez.
    Casey's contract was hardly an "albatross" coming into the season (his last under contract). Dan O'Brien didn't "get what he could" for Sean Casey considering that he dealt him at a value low point. He got what he would take. That's a more than subtle difference.
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