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Thread: What is reasonable?

  1. #1
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    What is reasonable?

    What is reasonable?

    It seems like we’ve been waiting forever for the ownership change. Once Castellini was announced as the winning bidder, the anticipation started to intensify.

    5 years of dismal performance will do that to you. Some of those years, we were in contention for a while, only to fall off at the end, victim to the harsh reality of our Pythagorean shortcomings.

    Last year, we didn’t have hope for any time at all once we broke camp in Sarasota. I’ve never seen such despair and apathy so early in the season.

    So, the specter of a new ownership group gave us hope, something that’s been in short supply for far too long.

    And for many of us, the starting point for that hope took shape in the idea that Dan O’Brien and John Allen would be removed from power. O’Brien and Allen personified the losing ways to which the Reds have become accustomed. They drew the ire of many here at RedsZone.

    We’ve been talking for weeks now about their fate. We’ve even had threads to predict the date when they’d be removed. And I’ve noticed that we have several opinions on the subject.

    Many of us wanted a bold move by Castellini, lopping off their heads in his opening press conference. We wanted him to come in roaring like a lion, putting the baseball world on notice that the dismal suckfest that Reds baseball has descended into will no longer be tolerated.

    Others are happy enough with a measured approach. More suitable to Midwestern values and not ruffling the feathers of the prior administration.

    Still others don’t think it will happen at all. They think that DanO will serve out his term and run the team all year.

    So, after reading all the passionate appeals and sorting through the logic, I have to ask myself….. what is reasonable?

    I’ve heard it put that it would be totally unprofessional to come in and make a big scene in the first press conference, that it would be better to wait and put some time between taking control and firing O’Brien.

    I’ve been railing for weeks now that it should be the first thing he does. An immediate show that he understands just how bad DanO’s performance has been.

    None of this is directed towards O’Brian personally. He may be the nicest guy on the block. But I’ve seen all I need to see, and I’ve heard all the corporate speak gobbledegook I want to hear.

    The next person who makes the mistake of saying “Status Quo” around me may just get smacked upside the head. “Status Quo” has taken on a life of its own here, and it’s a sad, pitiful joke to accept the current state of affairs.

    I’m trying to be reasonable in my expectations. I really am encouraged by the new ownership and the things they’re saying. I’m also scared a little by a few quotes, like the “glass is half full” line. The glass may be half full, but it’s half full of sludge. We need to filter out the contaminates and then add some new pitching. THEN we’ll have a nice little cocktail we can all enjoy and be proud of, instead of the liver and onion smoothie we’ve been force fed.

    I’m trying to be reasonable, I really am. I’ve racked my brain going over scenarios that make sense, and I’m bending over backwards to give the Castellini administration the full benefit of the doubt.

    DanO, I wish you well in your future life. I think that it would be the best for everyone if you got an early start on it.

    I’m really trying to be reasonable.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  3. #2
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    I believe Dan OBrien will be gone at some point this season. I just never expected it to happen during Castellinis inaugural address.

    (Fingers crossed tightly that the puppetmaster goes too.)

    Maybe, just maybe ..... they don't have replacements in line yet.

  4. #3
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    Status Quo could be trademarked.

    Status Quo™

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
    Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
    Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13
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    Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

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    Re: What is reasonable?

    Please don't take this the wrong way; I have no idea what everyone does for a living, but I am in upper management at the company I work for. The last thing a new CEO or high level manager does upon taking over is blow up the organization. That might be the grand plan, but if you do it as your first act of power you will spend the next year reconstructing.

    Only a CEO wanting chaos and confusion would do something as irrational as what people seem to have wanted who post here. It's ok to fire Cal Levy in the marketing department, and ok to start putting some of your own people into the operations area, but Robert Castellini didn't become a multi-millionaire by doind irrational things. He wasn't about to start now.

  6. #5
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Please don't take this the wrong way; I have no idea what everyone does for a living, but I am in upper management at the company I work for. The last thing a new CEO or high level manager does upon taking over is blow up the organization. That might be the grand plan, but if you do it as your first act of power you will spend the next year reconstructing.

    Only a CEO wanting chaos and confusion would do something as irrational as what people seem to have wanted who post here. It's ok to fire Cal Levy in the marketing department, and ok to start putting some of your own people into the operations area, but Robert Castellini didn't become a multi-millionaire by doind irrational things. He wasn't about to start now.
    All of that is true, but in keeping DanO and John A, RCast still needs to spend the next (several) years reconstructing and looking back over the past few years, with DanO and John it has been an organization filled with chaos and confusion.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  7. #6
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougflynn23
    Please don't take this the wrong way; I have no idea what everyone does for a living, but I am in upper management at the company I work for. The last thing a new CEO or high level manager does upon taking over is blow up the organization. That might be the grand plan, but if you do it as your first act of power you will spend the next year reconstructing.

    Only a CEO wanting chaos and confusion would do something as irrational as what people seem to have wanted who post here. It's ok to fire Cal Levy in the marketing department, and ok to start putting some of your own people into the operations area, but Robert Castellini didn't become a multi-millionaire by doind irrational things. He wasn't about to start now.
    I don't think that's the case in all organizations. I too am in upper management at my company and we've recently, 3 years ago, did EXACTLY that. New president and owners came in and cleaned house, it's how I got my position, and in my professional opinion we are much better off for doing so.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
    Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
    Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13
    University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12
    Cincinnati Bengals - None
    Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

  8. #7
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    No one is wanting to blow up an entire organization. But rest assured that a struggling company coming under new ownership almost ALWAYS gets rid of the couple of people at the top. That's not irrational, it's called good business...getting rid of the people who put the company in that predicament.

    The people new owners can't afford to get rid of is mid-level functional managers because they run the day to day operations. But the top couple of people can be replaed without any disruption to the business.
    Last edited by MWM; 01-22-2006 at 01:35 PM.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  9. #8
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    MWM, well that is kind of what happened. Allen was reassigned to no longer have anything to do with baseball operations. Carl Lindner, no longer being in ownership means someone else is removed from previous position. Dan Obrien, contrary to what anyone else wants to belive on this site, seems to actually be able to do his own job now, without having to go through John Allen to get to the owner.

  10. #9
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    Dan O has been able to do his job all along, having to run things by Allen was just Lindner keeping out of it, so basically it's the same as it was before, the new owner just having a more hands on approach.

    He's not all of a sudden going to be a good gm.
    Go Gators!

  11. #10
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    Like RFS62, I was ready for Castellini to come in like Roy Rogers with his gun blazing snuffing out every person within the Reds organization that I thought needed to go (O'Brien, Allen, Butcher, and many others). He didn't. I was disappointed, but I should have looked at the company I deal with.

    I'm an independent contractor for a company located in Ohio. The philosophy of the company, like the Reds, has always been conservative and "proper" in its dealings with their employees. The Mid-Western way is not to shoot first and ask questions later.

    My bunch has had two owner-leadership changes in the 20 years I have been with them. In both cases, there was much anticipation when the change was announced. Always a large group of us would say, "Now, this will get fixed," or "So-and-so is in big trouble." It never happened the first week. In fact, sometimes it was six months, but it did happen.

    I took the first guy aside in an introductory meeting and asked him why what we wanted hadn't happened. His answer to me was, "because I'm not stupid. I don't even know where the men's room is yet. Yes, this and that needs to be done, but it will all happen in good time." And it did.

    So apparently this is the way big corporations operate in Ohio (and probably a lot of other places). I still believe that one day we'll log on here and see that Allen and O'Brien and others have either been demoted, fired or have resigned. Maybe I'm stupid, but the man I saw on the podium two days ago didn't seem like the type who would keep incompetent people on the payroll so he wouldn't hurt the guy he bought the company from. Change is a comin'. Watch and wait.
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  12. #11
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    We have to give new ownership some time. After all, the timing of this change is unfortunate -- late in the off-season, after the main player movement has taken place.

    I was disappointed to hear the payroll estimate, which is unchanged. But I can live with that. I will be grossly disappointed if new baseball management (either instead of, or along with) DanO is not brought in soon.

  13. #12
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    The problem with sitting on your hands is that you might get a thumb up your butt.

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    Re: What is reasonable?

    The funny thing about all this is that isn't Carl Linder a Millionaire?? He could have put some Money into the Roster and Received a return on fans going to the stadium and Playoff Revenues. It seems like he really isn't a Baseball man and decided after he Traded for Griffey, Status Quo would win...???

  15. #14
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    My guess says that the most likely event is that O'Brien and Allen will be gone at the end of this season, after the team fares marginally better, but still has a losing record. The new management team will be built around Lou Piniella, and won't be totally satisfactory to us, but it will improve performance. We'll complain that it's still too old school Cincinnati, but next season the team will emerge into the lower upper part of the division after years in the Pirates, Brewers cellar.

    Next most likely is that O'Brien will be gone at the All-Star break, after a dismal first half, with a Kullman-Maddox type interim setup. Then Piniella comes in at the end of the season.

    Less likely but still possible is that the team stumbles badly out of the gate, with Harang still good but not dominant, Claussen developing but not a consistent winner, and the rest of staff as dismal as always. The Reds sink to the bottom or near bottom of the race early on, and the townspeople get out the torches. Castellini gets out his torch and leads the way. O'Brien and Allen are gone early, but it's still an interim setup.

    Next possibility is that Castellini's patience wears thin quickly, but the Williams crew takes over the interim instead of Kullman-Maddox types. They'll probably do some things we won't like, and we'll complain about the boss's nephew.

    Next is that Castellini will act quickly and get a Krivsky type GM. He'll be better, but not much noticeably different from O'Brien.

    Least likely is that Castellini will get a Paul DePodesta or a Kim Ng. If he did, Redszone would celebrate, but most of the Reds population would give the new school a hard time, especially when popular players are traded for less colorful but quality-stat guys. And Castellini won't have installed that top-to-bottom philosophy in the organization to back up the new school. We'd also find that Kim Ng isn't the Sabr-head we might assume, but could be an effective combination of skills, and a few knuckleheaded radio callers will embarrass themselves.
    Last edited by BCubb2003; 01-22-2006 at 03:26 PM.

  16. #15
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    Re: What is reasonable?

    My guess says that the most likely event is that O'Brien and Allen will be gone at the end of this season, after the team fares marginally better, but still has a losing record. The new management team will be built around Lou Piniella, and won't be totally satisfactory to us, but it will improve performance.

    I agree with everything but the last sentence. Nothing in Lou's GMing tenure suggests that he knows what it takes to win in a small market.


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