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Thread: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

  1. #16
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Would love to see the Reds get Contreras from the White Sox during spring training. They might be interested in a lefty specialist like Kent Mercker. Of course the Reds would probably need to add a couple of young prospects to the deal. Maybe LHP Phil Dumatrait along with someone else would work?
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  3. #17
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Wow. What a waste of over half a million dollars.

    His OBP Against over the past three seasons has been .340, .356, and .374.

    You'd actually have to be mentally challenged to sign this guy to anything but a minor league ST invite deal.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  4. #18
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Like Womack he was good once a few years ago so we think he'll repeat
    Go Gators!

  5. #19
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    i'd say the ERAs wel above in 2003 and 2004 are much better indicators of an expected level of performance. They will get nothing from White that they couldn't get from Hancock, Simpson, etc.

    The organization can't seem to shake the obsession with less than mediocrity. Hopefully it is just a hangover from DanO but I doubt it.
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  6. #20
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    i think the logic is to try to get a middling out of White should he still have a deceptively good ERA at the deadline. i wouldn't be surprised in the least if Narron is insturcted (assuming Kullman's in charge) to only use White in low pressure and bottom of the order situations until June.
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  7. #21
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Well, the minimum major league salary is something like 350k.. so we're really only wasting 250k if White is a total washout. Pretty low risk.

    I just can't see people grinding their teeth worrying about Hudson, Hancock, and the young guys. If White is as bad as you guys think, he shouldn't earn a roster spot. There's no doubt in my mind that White will be released if he does implode and suck. Maybe not in the first week of the season (as many wanted to do with Weathers last year), but if they ate Jimmeniz's and Graves' contract, I'm sure they'll have no problem cutting White.

    This is a no risk deal. Worst case, White gets cut in spring training and the Reds are out 250k. I'm sure White had other ML offers out there, so the Reds had to ante up a ML deal to get him. As bad as the bullpen was last year (and it was bad and well used), why complain about getting some depth.

    I know veteran presence is considered overrated by some, but sometimes the young pitchers do learn stuff from the older vets .

    I just don't see how the Reds can lose on this. Worst case, they're out 250k. Best case, it frees up someone in the pen to be traded. The Reds have a serious talent deficit in pitching. No harm in doing a mini-cattle call and seeing what White has.
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  8. #22
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    hell, they gave him a major league deal.
    Yeah, that's the part I don't understand. Why a major league deal? If they like the guy, fine. Give him a minor league deal with an invite to ST. How many other teams in baseball would be willing to give him a major league deal???

  9. #23
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Hate to say it, but Rick White possibly could lead the Reds in pitching appearances next year. He is an extreme ground ball pitcher who can pitch every day. Obviously, he is not a top reliever, but with this staff he could turn out to be a "mainstay."

    While one year's numbers don't always tell the story, the "young" Reds pitchers didn't exactly set the world on fire last year. Hudson and Wagner had over 6 ERAs, Hancock was hurt all year, Belisle showed signs but faded, Coffey improved but he probably wasn't ready. Only Shackelford was consistent and he is far from a sure thing based on minor league performance.

    With Weathers, Mercker, Hammond and White, that leaves 3 relief spots for young pitchers. In addition, if Wilson is DLd early, Belisle will probably get some starts. The young guys will have to perform in the spring to fill these slots; those who don't will start at AAA (where they probably belong).

  10. #24
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Reds
    Sadly, our 2005 bullpen was full of guys who would envy that 3.72 ERA. I can't poor-mouth this signing. It did not break the budget.

    How about signing Dunn and Lopez?????
    Do you really think he'll have a sub 4 ERA pitching in Cincinnati? That's what scouting and evaluating talent is all about. They can't take his last year's stats and plug them into 2006 in Cincinnati. Exhibit A: Eric Milton

    If Kullman wants the GM job this was not a good move to put on his resume IMO.

  11. #25
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Do you really think he'll have a sub 4 ERA pitching in Cincinnati? That's what scouting and evaluating talent is all about. They can't take his last year's stats and plug them into 2006 in Cincinnati. Exhibit A: Eric Milton
    Exactly, you can't just look at his stats from one year, and expect him to be the same the next year. It's that mindset that gets you players like Tony Womack. Rick White is a year older now, and he wasn't very good when he was young.
    Last edited by MattyHo4Life; 02-01-2006 at 11:35 AM.

  12. #26
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Well, the minimum major league salary is something like 350k.. so we're really only wasting 250k if White is a total washout. Pretty low risk.

    I just can't see people grinding their teeth worrying about Hudson, Hancock, and the young guys. If White is as bad as you guys think, he shouldn't earn a roster spot. There's no doubt in my mind that White will be released if he does implode and suck. Maybe not in the first week of the season (as many wanted to do with Weathers last year), but if they ate Jimmeniz's and Graves' contract, I'm sure they'll have no problem cutting White.

    This is a no risk deal. Worst case, White gets cut in spring training and the Reds are out 250k. I'm sure White had other ML offers out there, so the Reds had to ante up a ML deal to get him. As bad as the bullpen was last year (and it was bad and well used), why complain about getting some depth.

    I know veteran presence is considered overrated by some, but sometimes the young pitchers do learn stuff from the older vets .

    I just don't see how the Reds can lose on this. Worst case, they're out 250k. Best case, it frees up someone in the pen to be traded. The Reds have a serious talent deficit in pitching. No harm in doing a mini-cattle call and seeing what White has.
    No, the risk is much greater. First of all if they cut him, they're out $600K, not $250. If he's signed a minor league deal, it'll be for less than the major league minimum and it will not be guaranteed. This signing will also cost them a player, maybe Bubba who knows. Such a move would not be necessary if he was signed a minor league deal. And finally, if he was signed to a minor league deal you could send him to Louisville and provide depth there. If needed you can call him up. This obligates them to keep him in the majors which limits their options.

    Plain and simple, he's not worth a major league contract. Right handed mop up bullpen guys are not worth major league contracts. They are a dime a dozen and unfortunately they tend to greatly populate pitching staffs like our Reds.

  13. #27
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMo4Life
    Exactly, you can't just look at his stats from one year, and expect him to be the same the next year. It's that mindset that gets you players like Tony Womack.
    So, it's wishful thinking to hope that Womack will bat .220 next year?

    Good grief, I hope DanO didn't bring in Womack because he looked at his stats last year and though "Hot dang, we got ourselves a real humdinger here...if only he could replicate those numbers for us, think of the possibilities."
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  14. #28
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    No, the risk is much greater. First of all if they cut him, they're out $600K, not $250. If he's signed a minor league deal, it'll be for less than the major league minimum and it will not be guaranteed. This signing will also cost them a player, maybe Bubba who knows. Such a move would not be necessary if he was signed a minor league deal. And finally, if he was signed to a minor league deal you could send him to Louisville and provide depth there. If needed you can call him up. This obligates them to keep him in the majors which limits their options.

    Plain and simple, he's not worth a major league contract. Right handed mop up bullpen guys are not worth major league contracts. They are a dime a dozen and unfortunately they tend to greatly populate pitching staffs like our Reds.

    But you have to be paying at least 25 guys the minimum. So if there was a AAA guy in his place on the roster, he'd be getting that 317K instead of White. Of course, the problem comes when you're paying somebody 500K to pitch in AAA and White is taking his spot.

    Of course, if you do outright cut him, you have to pay him 600K and pay the guy taking his spot, so you are out the full amount.

  15. #29
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    So, it's wishful thinking to hope that Womack will bat .220 next year?

    Good grief, I hope DanO didn't bring in Womack because he looked at his stats last year and though "Hot dang, we got ourselves a real humdinger here...if only he could replicate those numbers for us, think of the possibilities."
    I didn't say "last" year. I said "one year". To be perfectly honest, I was talking more about the Yankees signing Womack last year after the season he had with the Cardinals. It still applies to the Reds signing him though. It's the mindset that a player had one good year, and he'll eventually have another.

  16. #30
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    So, it's wishful thinking to hope that Womack will bat .220 next year?
    that would be great because he won't play.

    The scary part is that WOmack might hit .280 and Narron play him. Even though he will still be worthless because the OBP will be .310 and higher than his SLG%.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand


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