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Thread: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

  1. #31
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick
    But you have to be paying at least 25 guys the minimum. So if there was a AAA guy in his place on the roster, he'd be getting that 317K instead of White. Of course, the problem comes when you're paying somebody 500K to pitch in AAA and White is taking his spot.

    Of course, if you do outright cut him, you have to pay him 600K and pay the guy taking his spot, so you are out the full amount.
    I understand where you're coming from. The way I see it, we've got plenty of Rick White type pitchers to stock this roster right now, so why commit to another $600K? I hope I'm wrong and he turns into Jeff Nelson of several years ago but I don't see how this improves the team at all. Weathers, Mercker, Hammond, Paul Wilson and now White. Did I forget anyone? By my count that's nearly half your staff made up of upper 30 something retreads. Not a pleasant thought if you're a Reds fan trying to get fired up about the 2006 season.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Do you really think he'll have a sub 4 ERA pitching in Cincinnati? That's what scouting and evaluating talent is all about. They can't take his last year's stats and plug them into 2006 in Cincinnati. Exhibit A: Eric Milton

    If Kullman wants the GM job this was not a good move to put on his resume IMO.
    I have low expectations for Rick White. You are right - he will have a hard time replicating the same ERA pitching half his games in GABP. However, I think he can post better numbers compared to what the 2005 Reds bullpen did (at relatively the same cost).

  4. #33
    Member CrackerJack's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Woo hoo! More of the same. I thought DanO was gone?

  5. #34
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    No, the risk is much greater. First of all if they cut him, they're out $600K, not $250. If he's signed a minor league deal, it'll be for less than the major league minimum and it will not be guaranteed. This signing will also cost them a player, maybe Bubba who knows. .
    They aren't likely to cut him before the allstar break.. but even if they cut him on opening day.. big deal, it's only 600k. My point is that if White stays all year, it's only 250k more than a minimum wage earner.

    The Reds' 40 man roster is not flush with talent. There's plenty of dreck that can be exposed to waivers that no one will claim. I can guarantee you they'll find someone to cut that will not be missed at all.

    In order to get White to sign, they had to offer him a ML deal. Atlanta and perhaps another team were after him. He signed with the Reds to be close to home, and probably because he knows he'll get plenty of work here. So, it was offer him a ML deal or not get him.

    I can't believe people are ready to burn Kullman at the stake for this minor signing. There's no risk at all here, because the cost is so low. There's very good potential upside. As others pointed out, White likely replaces a youngster that would've posted a 6.00+ ERA. It's not like White has to pitch that well to make this a good move.

    Now if the Reds gave White 4 million, I'd be complaining as much as anyone.. but it's only 600k.

    I remember a lot of people also last year complaining about Weathers, particularly when Weathers started the season rough.. In the end, Weathers ended up being our best pitcher out of the pen. Note.. I do not expect White
    to be as good as Weathers, but I see him as a better option than our current 11th pitcher on the depth chart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Plain and simple, he's not worth a major league contract. Right handed mop up bullpen guys are not worth major league contracts. They are a dime a dozen and unfortunately they tend to greatly populate pitching staffs like our Reds.

    I see White probably earning the #3 or #4 slot on the depth chart in the bullpen based on Merit, because frankly, there's not much talent there.

    Any incremental improvement in talent at a low cost needs to be done for this team.
    Last edited by REDREAD; 02-01-2006 at 05:34 PM.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #35
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Reds
    I think he can post better numbers compared to what the 2005 Reds bullpen did (at relatively the same cost).
    Sounds like pretty high expectations to me.

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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    What is the deal with the pick-ups of all the Pirate DUDS? I am glad to see the new owners are doing things differently around here.
    "Some of the guys who pitched well for us last year aren't going to make the ballclub," Narron said.

    Pete Rose, when asked by David Letterman who he likes in the MLB playoffs:

    "You sound like you're betting on baseball."

  8. #37
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    In order to get White to sign, they had to offer him a ML deal. Atlanta and perhaps another team were after him. He signed with the Reds to be close to home, and probably because he knows he'll get plenty of work here. So, it was offer him a ML deal or not get him.


    Now if the Reds gave White 4 million, I'd be complaining as much as anyone.. but it's only 600k.





    I see White probably earning the #3 or #4 slot on the depth chart in the bullpen based on Merit, because frankly, there's not much talent there.

    Any incremental improvement in talent at a low cost needs to be done for this team.
    I agree it's a minor deal that will likely not impact the team much positively or negatively. But wouldn't you have rather had Felix Rodriguez? Or maybe even Jeff Nelson on a minor league deal? I'm just looking at what $600K will buy out there and I don't think we got much for it.

  9. #38
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    File White next to Rich Aurilia and Tony himself under what I'd call the "Womack Effect"- either they have great years on par with some of their best and actually justify the roster spot (unlikely, but possible), or you root for a total collapse that gets them run out of town on a rail. If Aurilia hits .260/.320/.400 or Tony does .270/.310/.380 or White puts up a 4.94 ERA, it does more to hurt the club because they'll continue to eat roster spots and at-bats and innings- not playing well enough to actively help the club to win and also blocking younger players to boot.

    I would have much rather seen a guy under 30 with some actual bat-missing stuff get a real shot. I'm willing to take the implosion risks there. Just not very much upside here at all.

  10. #39
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by cReds1
    What is the deal with the pick-ups of all the Pirate DUDS? I am glad to see the new owners are doing things differently around here.
    They are doing things differently. Instead of picking up duds from TEX they are picking them up from PIT.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  11. #40
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    I agree it's a minor deal that will likely not impact the team much positively or negatively. But wouldn't you have rather had Felix Rodriguez? Or maybe even Jeff Nelson on a minor league deal? I'm just looking at what $600K will buy out there and I don't think we got much for it.
    I agree the Felix Rod looks better, even at a potential 1.2 million.

    One thing we have to sadly consider though is that Cincy is not exactly a favored place for FAs to come. Also, one of Bowden's strengths has always been playing the retread game.. signing the better ones on the cheap, especially relievers. Sure, they don't all work out, but that is a strength. He does seem to know how to sweet talk them into signing with him.

    In the end, it's a rebuilding year anyhow. Kind of depressing to see us going into the season with another pitching staff that might end up being the worst in the NL again, while the position players get another year older and more expensive. See I see no end to the tunnel in site, I do support trying to stopgap the pitching staff with the likes of Weathers, Mercker, White, etc.
    Yes, they'll be long gone before we contend again.. they aren't building blocks. But I think ownership realizes that you have to make the team somewhat presentable to keep fan interest. You can't risk throwing 12 Brian Rieths out there. You can carry 2-3 questionable youngsters on the pitching staff, but the rest of the youngsters have to prove themselves in the minors.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  12. #41
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    One thing we have to sadly consider though is that Cincy is not exactly a favored place for FAs to come.
    It's not the Yankees we're talking about. This is the Expos...I mean Nationals. lol

  13. #42
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    If Aurilia hits .260/.320/.400 or Tony does .270/.310/.380 or White puts up a 4.94 ERA, it does more to hurt the club because they'll continue to eat roster spots and at-bats and innings- not playing well enough to actively help the club to win and also blocking younger players to boot..
    Who exactly are these guys blocking though?
    I bet in spring training, the last guy cut and sent to AAA because White is on the team will not be a big loss.

    We have no decent MI options in the minors. I don't consider Bergollia and Olmedo worth a roster spot yet. They need to prove themselves in the minors. I'm not even convinced Olmedo is a decent fielder. Bergollia seems to be a decent glove, but he's not a ML hitter. Womack hitting .270 is a lot more valuable than what Bergollia would give you. Not because Womack is great at that level, but because Bergollia is bad.

    We're starting to hit a period of draught due to neglect of the farm system under John Allen's watch. All the position player prospects Bowden acquired/drafted are either in the minors or gone. DanO did zilch to add position player talent because he was too obsessed with acquiring pitching prospects only. It's going to bite us for a long time now. Get used to seeing Aurillias and Womacks in the lineup until the farm gets revitalized. I just hope we don't start seeing retreads in the OF in two years.
    Last edited by REDREAD; 02-02-2006 at 12:57 PM.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #43
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMo4Life
    It's not the Yankees we're talking about. This is the Expos...I mean Nationals. lol
    I know.. but Bowden can make a great sales pitch to retreads. He usually picked up 1 or 2 good retread pitchers a year at Cincy.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #44
    All dyslexics must untie!
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I remember a lot of people also last year complaining about Weathers, particularly when Weathers started the season rough.. In the end, Weathers ended up being our best pitcher out of the pen. Note.. I do not expect White to be as good as Weathers, but I see him as a better option than our current 11th pitcher on the depth chart.
    I recall similar hand-wringing when Todd Jones was brought in to "replace" Reitsma, coming out of spring training in '04 ("TJ's washed up, etc")

    Disclaimer: I'm not saying White will replicate Jones' performance
    Never overlook the obvious

  16. #45
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    We have no decent MI options in the minors. I don't consider Bergollia and Olmedo worth a roster spot yet. They need to prove themselves in the minors. I'm not even convinced Olmedo is a decent fielder. Bergollia seems to be a decent glove, but he's not a ML hitter. Womack hitting .270 is a lot more valuable than what Bergollia would give you. Not because Womack is great at that level, but because Bergollia is bad.
    I'd rather see kids try and fail then old vets stink it up and keep playing because our manager thinks they will regain some old lost magic.
    Go Gators!


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