Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 55 of 55

Thread: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

  1. #46
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    I'd rather see kids try and fail then old vets stink it up and keep playing because our manager thinks they will regain some old lost magic.
    I would too but most of these guys are really no longer kids. I've been at odds with REDREAD on a lot of things but I think he's spot on here. They could probably stick Bergolla in there at 2nd every day and he'd give you good defense but that's about it. With this team's offense they could probably handle him batting 8th every day. But he's really nothing special. As I said on "The Thread" I'm almost looking forward to seeing them put Womack in there every day so they can see for themselves how much he stinks.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,271

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Toronto just acquired Tallet for non-prospect Bubbie Buzachero. Kullman traded Nelson for White essentially. White is filler, Tallet has upside and is a lefty.

  4. #48
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR (West Chester, OH)
    Posts
    6,091

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Who exactly are these guys blocking though?
    I bet in spring training, the last guy cut and sent to AAA because White is on the team will not be a big loss.

    We have no decent MI options in the minors. I don't consider Bergollia and Olmedo worth a roster spot yet. They need to prove themselves in the minors. I'm not even convinced Olmedo is a decent fielder. Bergollia seems to be a decent glove, but he's not a ML hitter. Womack hitting .270 is a lot more valuable than what Bergollia would give you. Not because Womack is great at that level, but because Bergollia is bad.
    Uh, hello? Rich Aurilia is blocking Edwin Encarnacion? And don't tell me he isn't. Richus will take away at-bats whether Edwin slugs .550 or .350.

    And I am completely confident than Bergolla or Olmedo could come in right now and hit as well or better than Tony Womack, steal as many or more bases, and play better defense at 2B. That may be damning with faint praise, sure. And Bergolla needs another year at AAA, but Olmedo's going to be jettisoned in favor of Womack... and that's not a swap I personally would make.

    White is blocking about eight or nine other pitchers that had a shot to take that roster spot. Of course most of them will end up flops, but I'd much rather see if some of the Hudsons and Standridges and Simpsons can hack it over a full season in a low-leverage bullpen role. I guarantee you that at least a couple of those names on the 40-man would/could do better than White will in 2006 if they get the chance. Now, the chance they get the chance is considerably lower.

    When you sign these retreads and place them in front of whatever young players you have (the level of promise they have varying, of course), you create a Catch-22 for the youngsters- they need to prove themselves at the big league level to earn a job, but they can't earn a job because there's no room to prove themselves at the big league level.

  5. #49
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR (West Chester, OH)
    Posts
    6,091

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I know.. but Bowden can make a great sales pitch to retreads. He usually picked up 1 or 2 good retread pitchers a year at Cincy.
    Yeah but the problem was that he depended on them to fill several open spots on the staff, rather than considering it a bonus if they bounced back. He'd also bring so many pitchers to camp that they ended up (more or less) holding too many auditions in-season.

    When the Reds brought in Weathers and Mercker (and Weber, in theory) before last season, that was fine. There were almost no veterans on the staff outside of Danny Graves (as Todd Jones, Frisbee Norton, and John Riedling had all hit the bricks), and barely enough potential filler for there to be real competition.

    With White coming in, it's a totally different story- four spots were already spoken for (Weathers/Mercker/Hammond/Belisle) and two virtually spoken for (Wagner/Coffey). On top of that, Brian Shackleford has to pretty much pitch his way off the team, not on it. Only one spot- two at absolute most- was even up for grabs, and now White has carved out that spot for mediocrity regardless of who shows what in spring training.

  6. #50
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,123

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    I'd rather see kids try and fail then old vets stink it up and keep playing because our manager thinks they will regain some old lost magic.

    Even if the kids have no chance improving enough to be an acceptable Major leaguer? IMO, I'd rather see Aurillia out there than Machado.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #51
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Even if the kids have no chance improving enough to be an acceptable Major leaguer? IMO, I'd rather see Aurillia out there than Machado.
    Either way, you're screwed. Your team shouldn't be in the position to have to choose between Rich Aurilia and Anderson Machado. That's some bad GM'ing, that's what that is.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  8. #52
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,123

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    Uh, hello? Rich Aurilia is blocking Edwin Encarnacion? And don't tell me he isn't. Richus will take away at-bats whether Edwin slugs .550 or .350..
    Possibly.. but let's wait and see. Give Narron the chance at least to make the right call. I've seen conflicting reports on Narron's take on Aurillia's role.

    I'm not of the mindset that the GM shouldn't add infield depth because the field manager might be tempted to do something stupid. If that's the case, Narron is the problem, not the GM. The GM should still try to improve the team as much as possible. Aurillia is better than Olmedo, Machado, etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    And I am completely confident than Bergolla or Olmedo could come in right now and hit as well or better than Tony Womack, steal as many or more bases, and play better defense at 2B.
    ..
    Ok, if you believe that, you have an argument not to bring in Womack.
    I have no faith in Bergolla or Olmedo though even playing at a Womack-level.





    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott

    White is blocking about eight or nine other pitchers that had a shot to take that roster spot. Of course most of them will end up flops, but I'd much rather see if some of the Hudsons and Standridges and Simpsons can hack it over a full season in a low-leverage bullpen role. I guarantee you that at least a couple of those names on the 40-man would/could do better than White will in 2006 if they get the chance. Now, the chance they get the chance is considerably lower.

    ..
    Actually, they still have a chance. Only one of them will miss out because of White's presence. Hudson and company are all very marginal guys. Let's face it, even at their upside, they aren't a piece to a contending team. Let them earn their spot on the roster, as opposed to giving them a slot in the pen by default (due to lack of bodies on the roster).




    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    When you sign these retreads and place them in front of whatever young players you have (the level of promise they have varying, of course), you create a Catch-22 for the youngsters- they need to prove themselves at the big league level to earn a job, but they can't earn a job because there's no room to prove themselves at the big league level.
    I see four vets in the pen right now (Weathers, Mercker, White, Hammond). Assuming the Reds go with a 12 man staff, that leaves room for 3 kids. That's plenty of kids, IMO. If all three of those kids do well and someone is really playing well at AAA, it will be easy to move one of those vets in a trade to open a roster spot since all those vets are low paid.
    The kid pitchers don't have to be in Cincy in order to develop.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #53
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,123

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    With White coming in, it's a totally different story- four spots were already spoken for (Weathers/Mercker/Hammond/Belisle) and two virtually spoken for (Wagner/Coffey). On top of that, Brian Shackleford has to pretty much pitch his way off the team, not on it. Only one spot- two at absolute most- was even up for grabs, and now White has carved out that spot for mediocrity regardless of who shows what in spring training.
    Shackleford can beat out Wagner, Coffey, or Belisle if he really pitches well.
    All the youngsters he's competing against have options to be sent down too.

    If we have 4 or 5 young pitchers pitching lights out in spring training, that's not a problem at all. One of the vets could easily be moved.

    My guess is that we'll be lucky to have 2 or 3 of the young bullpen pitchers really gel. That's just the nature of prospects, most wash out. Nothing wrong with adding depth to be prepared for that.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #54
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    55,702

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Even if the kids have no chance improving enough to be an acceptable Major leaguer? IMO, I'd rather see Aurillia out there than Machado.
    Aurilia will be playing over EE not the kids, 2b is where we will see Freel be called too valuable to play and have Womack play..and yes I would rather see a sub .200 hitter give Freel a day off now and then and bat 8th (we have enough O) then to see Womack starting 120 times and leading off.
    Go Gators!

  11. #55
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR (West Chester, OH)
    Posts
    6,091

    Re: Rick White does join Reds bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Shackleford can beat out Wagner, Coffey, or Belisle if he really pitches well.
    All the youngsters he's competing against have options to be sent down too.

    If we have 4 or 5 young pitchers pitching lights out in spring training, that's not a problem at all. One of the vets could easily be moved.

    My guess is that we'll be lucky to have 2 or 3 of the young bullpen pitchers really gel. That's just the nature of prospects, most wash out. Nothing wrong with adding depth to be prepared for that.
    Actually, only about half of them do. Off the top of my head, only Burns, Ramirez, Coffey, Wagner, and Shackleford have options. Everyone else has to go through waivers to be sent down (although Hancock and presumably Nelson are off the 40-man).

    Of course two-thirds of them will flop. And I've never disagreed that it's not the greatest list of stud prospects- everyone's got a selling point, but everyone's also got some caveats. But you haven't addressed that Catch-22 I've made reference to that blocks the Reds' ability to figure out who can do what over the course of an actual major-league season.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25