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Thread: '87 Reds

  1. #1
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    '87 Reds

    What was the difference between the 2005 Reds and the '87 Reds? Both teams had really good offenses and poor starting pitching. At least, working off of memory, I remember the '87 team have very bad starting pitching.

    But that team still finished with a winning record...84-78. The one thing that I remember is the '87 team had a kick butt bullpen, probably the best in the game at the time. Is that what enabled them to win more than they lost
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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  3. #2
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    That '87 team did have awful starting pitching. It was so bad that I can only think of three starting pitchers from that staff: Browning, who had an off year, Ted Power, and Bill Gullickson. Who were the other two, or was that when Pete was using only four starters?

    You are right that the bullpen was very good. Franco from the left and Rob Murphy from the right. IIRC Murphy kept a PC in the dugout to analyze hitters or something. The national media took notice of it.

    The Reds had a chance to improve that staff by trading for Rick Reuschel from the Pirates, but they thought the asking price too high. The Giants pulled the trigger on a deal, and came into Riverfront in early August down 4 1/2 games to the Reds. They proceeded to sweep a five-game series and leave town with a 1/2-game lead.

    I don't remember Reuschel being all that great, but I think the combination of the Reds not getting him and the Giants getting him kinda demoralized the Reds players. I seem to recall some of them complaining in the papers.

    And while we're talking about 1987, how about Eric Davis in April and May?

    Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.

  4. #3
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    Murphy was a lefty. Looks like Frank Williams was tough from the pen too.

    top 5 starters in number of starts for the Reds in '87:
    Ted Power
    Tom Browning
    Bill Gullickson
    Guy Hoffman
    Ron Robinson
    4009



  5. #4
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    Code:
    1987 CINCINNATI REDS PITCHING STATS
    
    NAME                   W  L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO
    Ted Power             10  13  .435   34  34   2   0   0  204    213  115  102   71  133 
    Tom Browning          10  13  .435   32  31   2   0   1  183    201  107  102   61  117 
    Bill Gullickson       10  11  .476   27  27   3   0   0  165    172   99   89   39   89 
    Guy Hoffman            9  10  .474   36  22   0   0   2  158.2  160   83   77   49   87 
    Ron Robinson           7   5  .583   48  18   0   4  14  154    148   71   63   43   99 
    Frank Williams         4   0 1.000   85   0   0   2  19  105.2  101   37   27   39   60 
    Rob Murphy             8   5  .615   87   0   0   3  21  100.2   91   37   34   32   99 
    John Franco            8   5  .615   68   0   0  32  60   82     76   26   23   27   61 
    Bill Landrum           3   2  .600   44   2   0   2  14   65     68   35   34   34   42 
    Dennis Rasmussen       4   1  .800    7   7   0   0   0   45.1   39   22   20   12   39 
    Pat Pacillo            3   3  .500   12   7   0   0   2   39.2   41   30   27   19   23 
    Jerry Reuss            0   5  .000    7   7   0   0   0   34.2   52   31   30   12   10 
    Bill Scherrer          1   1  .500   23   0   0   0  10   33     43   17   16   16   24 
    Mario Soto             3   2  .600    6   6   0   0   0   31.2   34   18   18   12   11 
    Jeff Montgomery        2   2  .500   14   1   0   0   6   19.1   25   15   14    9   13 
    Pat Perry              1   0 1.000   12   0   0   1   3   15.1    6    0    0    4    6 
    Tom Hume               1   0 1.000   11   0   0   0   2   13.1   14    6    6    2    4 
    Paul O'Neill           0   0          1   0   0   0   1    2      2    3    3    4    2 
    TOTALS                84  78  .519  554 162   7  44 155 1452.1 1486  752  685  485  919 
    
    
    NAME                   ERA   RSAA HR  H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO WP  IBB HBP BFP   BK  NW  NL
    Ted Power              4.50   -6  28  9.40 12.66  5.87  3.13  1.87   1   3   7   3   887  2  11  12 
    Tom Browning           5.02  -16  27  9.89 13.13  5.75  3.00  1.92   0   2   7   5   791  4  10  13 
    Bill Gullickson        4.85  -11  33  9.38 11.62  4.85  2.13  2.28   1   4   6   2   698  1   9  12 
    Guy Hoffman            4.37   -2  20  9.08 12.08  4.93  2.78  1.78   0   3   5   4   669  1   9  10 
    Ron Robinson           3.68   10  14  8.65 11.22  5.79  2.51  2.30   0   2   8   1   638  0   7   5 
    Frank Williams         2.30   23   5  8.60 12.09  5.11  3.32  1.54   0   4   9   2   446  0   3   1 
    Rob Murphy             3.04   14   7  8.14 11.00  8.85  2.86  3.09   0   1   5   0   415  0   8   5 
    John Franco            2.52   16   6  8.34 11.30  6.70  2.96  2.26   0   1   6   0   344  0   9   4 
    Bill Landrum           4.71   -3   3  9.42 14.12  5.82  4.71  1.24   0   4   6   0   276  1   2   3 
    Dennis Rasmussen       3.97    1   5  7.74 10.32  7.74  2.38  3.25   0   1   0   1   187  2   3   2 
    Pat Pacillo            6.13   -8   7  9.30 13.84  5.22  4.31  1.21   0   3   0   1   176  0   2   4 
    Jerry Reuss            7.79  -14   2 13.50 16.88  2.60  3.12  0.83   0   1   2   1   163  1   1   4 
    Bill Scherrer          4.36    0   3 11.73 16.09  6.55  4.36  1.50   0   2   4   0   151  0   1   1 
    Mario Soto             5.12   -3   7  9.66 13.07  3.13  3.41  0.92   0   1   1   0   138  0   2   3 
    Jeff Montgomery        6.52   -5   2 11.64 15.83  6.05  4.19  1.44   0   1   1   0    89  1   1   3 
    Pat Perry              0.00    7   0  3.52  6.46  3.52  2.35  1.50   0   0   1   1    55  0   1   0 
    Tom Hume               4.05    0   0  9.45 11.48  2.70  1.35  2.00   0   0   0   1    54  0   1   0 
    Paul O'Neill          13.50   -2   1  9.00 27.00  9.00 18.00  0.50   0   0   0   0    11  0   0   0 
    TOTALS                 4.24    1 170  9.21 12.35  5.69  3.01  1.89   2  33  68  22  6188 13  80  82

    Code:
    1987 CINCINNATI REDS HITTING STATS
    
    PLAYER                 G    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI   BB   SO   SB   CS  AVG   SLG  OBA   OPS
    Dave Parker           153   589   77  149  28   0  26   97   44  104    7   3  .253  .433  .311  .744 
    Buddy Bell            143   522   74  148  19   2  17   70   71   39    4   1  .284  .425  .369  .794 
    Eric Davis            129   474  120  139  23   4  37  100   84  134   50   6  .293  .593  .399  .991 
    Bo Diaz               140   496   49  134  28   1  15   82   19   73    1   0  .270  .421  .300  .722 
    Barry Larkin          125   439   64  107  16   2  12   43   36   52   21   6  .244  .371  .306  .678 
    Kurt Stillwell        131   395   54  102  20   7   4   33   32   50    4   6  .258  .375  .316  .690 
    Kal Daniels           108   368   73  123  24   1  26   64   60   62   26   8  .334  .617  .429 1.046 
    Tracy Jones           117   359   53  104  17   3  10   44   23   40   31   8  .290  .437  .333  .771 
    Nick Esasky           100   346   48   94  19   2  22   59   29   76    0   0  .272  .529  .327  .856 
    Dave Concepcion       104   279   32   89  15   0   1   33   28   24    4   3  .319  .384  .377  .761 
    Ron Oester             69   237   28   60   9   6   2   23   22   51    2   3  .253  .367  .317  .684 
    Terry Francona        102   207   16   47   5   0   3   12   10   12    2   0  .227  .295  .266  .561 
    Paul O'Neill           84   160   24   41  14   1   7   28   18   29    2   1  .256  .488  .331  .819 
    Dave Collins           57    85   19   25   5   0   0    5   11   12    9   0  .294  .353  .388  .741 
    Terry McGriff          34    89    6   20   3   0   2   11    8   17    0   0  .225  .326  .289  .615 
    Jeff Treadway          23    84    9   28   4   0   2    4    2    6    1   0  .333  .452  .356  .809 
    Lloyd McClendon        45    72    8   15   5   0   2   13    4   15    1   0  .208  .361  .247  .608 
    Ted Power              35    59    3    7   1   0   1    4    3   31    0   0  .119  .186  .175  .361 
    Tom Browning           34    52    2    8   2   0   0    6    3   21    1   0  .154  .192  .200  .392 
    Bill Gullickson        27    53    4   11   2   0   1    3    0   11    0   0  .208  .302  .208  .509 
    Guy Hoffman            36    45    2    5   1   0   0    5    0   15    0   0  .111  .133  .111  .244 
    Ron Robinson           48    36    4    7   0   0   0    2    0   14    0   0  .194  .194  .189  .384 
    Leo Garcia             31    30    8    6   0   0   1    2    4    8    3   1  .200  .300  .286  .586 
    Dennis Rasmussen        7    15    1    1   0   0   0    0    1    7    0   0  .067  .067  .125  .192 
    Pat Pacillo            13    11    1    1   1   0   0    0    1    6    0   0  .091  .182  .167  .348 
    Sal Butera              5    11    1    2   0   0   1    2    1    6    0   0  .182  .455  .250  .705 
    Mario Soto              6    12    1    1   0   0   0    0    0    3    0   0  .083  .083  .083  .167 
    Jerry Reuss             7     8    0    1   1   0   0    0    0    5    0   0  .125  .250  .125  .375 
    Max Venable             7     7    2    1   0   0   0    2    0    0    0   0  .143  .143  .143  .286 
    Bill Landrum           44     5    0    1   0   0   0    0    0    0    0   0  .200  .200  .200  .400 
    Rob Murphy             87     5    0    1   0   0   0    0    0    2    0   0  .200  .200  .200  .400 
    Frank Williams         85     5    0    0   0   0   0    0    0    1    0   0  .000  .000  .000  .000 
    John Franco            68     2    0    0   0   0   0    0    0    1    0   0  .000  .000  .000  .000 
    Jeff Montgomery        14     2    0    0   0   0   0    0    0    1    0   0  .000  .000  .000  .000 
    Bill Scherrer          23     1    0    0   0   0   0    0    0    0    0   0  .000  .000  .000  .000 
    TOTALS               2241  5560  783 1478 262  29 192  747  514  928  169  46  .266  .427  .330  .757 
    
    PLAYER               RC   RCAA RCAP   OWP   RC/G   TB   EBH  ISO   SEC  BPA  IBB HBP GIDP SAC SF  POS
    Dave Parker            76  -13  -27  .420   4.43  255   54  .180  .261  .459  13   8  14   0   6  RF
    Buddy Bell             83    7    5  .536   5.72  222   38  .142  .284  .475   3   1  14   1   2  3B
    Eric Davis            124   56   50  .748   9.57  281   64  .300  .570  .719   8   1   6   0   3  CF
    Bo Diaz                58  -17    1  .379   4.04  209   44  .151  .192  .414   1   5  16   4   6  C
    Barry Larkin           52  -16    3  .372   3.97  163   30  .128  .244  .437   3   5   8   5   3  SS
    Kurt Stillwell         46  -13    4  .379   4.03  148   31  .116  .192  .406   2   2   5   2   2  SS
    Kal Daniels           100   50   41  .775  10.38  227   51  .283  .495  .699  11   1   6   1   0  LF
    Tracy Jones            53   -1  -10  .488   5.15  157   30  .148  .276  .503   0   3  10   0   5  LF
    Nick Esasky            56    5   -2  .535   5.71  183   43  .257  .341  .537   3   0  10   2   1  1B
    Dave Concepcion        39   -1    2  .483   5.09  107   16  .065  .168  .406   5   0  10   1   3  2B
    Ron Oester             25  -12   -9  .326   3.55   87   17  .114  .203  .386   4   0   8   2   0  2B
    Terry Francona         16  -16  -21  .215   2.60   61    8  .068  .126  .317   1   1   5   1   0  1B
    Paul O'Neill           25    1   -2  .517   5.49   78   22  .231  .350  .528   1   0   3   0   0  RF
    Dave Collins           15    3    1  .589   6.43   30    5  .059  .294  .520   0   2   1   2   0  LF
    Terry McGriff           8   -6   -3  .262   3.00   29    5  .101  .191  .351   0   0   3   0   0  C
    Jeff Treadway          14    2    3  .580   6.30   38    6  .119  .155  .471   0   1   1   3   0  2B
    Lloyd McClendon         6   -5   -3  .232   2.75   26    7  .153  .222  .390   0   0   1   0   1  C
    Ted Power               2  -10    0  .036   0.87   11    2  .068  .119  .222   0   1   1   9   0  P
    Tom Browning            2   -8    0  .050   1.06   10    2  .038  .115  .236   0   0   1   6   0  P
    Bill Gullickson         3   -6    1  .110   1.69   16    3  .094  .094  .264   0   0   2   4   0  P
    Guy Hoffman             1   -7   -1  .020   0.63    6    1  .022  .022  .133   0   0   0   3   0  P
    Ron Robinson            1   -6    0  .027   0.75    7    0  .000  .000  .162   0   0   1   5   1  P
    Leo Garcia              3   -2   -2  .276   3.12    9    1  .100  .300  .429   0   0   0   0   1  CF
    Dennis Rasmussen        0   -3   -1  .000   0.00    1    0  .000  .067  .125   0   0   0   0   0  P
    Pat Pacillo             0   -2    0  .000   0.00    2    1  .091  .182  .167   0   0   1   1   0  P
    Sal Butera              1   -1    0  .262   3.00    5    1  .273  .364  .500   0   0   0   0   0  C
    Mario Soto              0   -2    0  .000   0.00    1    0  .000  .000  .083   0   0   0   0   0  P
    Jerry Reuss             0   -2    0  .000   0.00    2    1  .125  .125  .250   0   0   0   2   0  P
    Max Venable             0   -1   -1  .000   0.00    1    0  .000  .000  .143   0   0   0   0   0  CF
    Bill Landrum            0   -1    0  .000   0.00    1    0  .000  .000  .000   0   0   1   1   0  P
    Rob Murphy              0   -1    0  .000   0.00    1    0  .000  .000  .200   0   0   0   1   0  P
    Frank Williams          0   -1    0  .000   0.00    0    0  .000  .000  -.200   0   0   1   1   0  P
    John Franco             0    0    0  .000   0.00    0    0  .000  .000  .000   0   0   0   0   0  P
    Jeff Montgomery         0    0    0  .000   0.00    0    0  .000  .000  .000   0   0   0   0   0  P
    Bill Scherrer           0    0    0  .000   0.00    0    0  .000  .000  .000   0   0   0   0   0  P
    TOTALS                809   20   30  .477   5.02 2374  483  .161  .276  .475  55  31 129  57  34
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  6. #5
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    Code:
    1987 NL TEAM PITCHING STATS
    
    TEAM           W    L   PCT   G    GS    CG   SV  GF   IP      H      R     ER    BB   SO    ERA
    Giants         90   72 .556   510  162   19   38  143  1471    1407   669   604   547  1038  3.70 
    Dodgers        73   89 .451   443  162   29   32  133  1455    1415   675   601   565  1097  3.72 
    Mets           92   70 .568   470  162   16   51  146  1454    1407   698   621   510  1032  3.84 
    Astros         76   86 .469   478  162   13   33  149  1441.1  1363   678   616   525  1137  3.85 
    Expos          91   71 .562   497  162   16   50  146  1450.1  1428   720   632   446  1012  3.92 
    Cardinals      95   67 .586   524  162   10   48  152  1466    1484   693   641   533   873  3.94 
    Phillies       80   82 .494   551  162   13   48  149  1448.1  1453   749   673   587   877  4.18 
    Pirates        80   82 .494   475  162   25   39  137  1445    1377   744   674   562   914  4.20 
    Reds           84   78 .519   554  162    7   44  155  1452.1  1486   752   685   485   919  4.24 
    Padres         65   97 .401   497  162   14   33  148  1433.1  1402   763   681   602   897  4.28 
    Cubs           76   85 .472   488  161   11   48  150  1434.2  1524   801   727   628  1024  4.56 
    Braves         69   92 .429   485  161   16   32  145  1427.2  1529   829   735   587   837  4.63 
    TOTALS        971  971 .500  5972 1942  189  496 1753 17379   17275  8771  7890  6577 11657  4.09 
    
    
    TEAM          HR   H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO   WP  IBB  HBP   BFP   BK PARK
    Giants        146  8.61 12.12  6.35  3.35  1.90    8   59   86   27   6202  25  89
    Dodgers       130  8.75 12.42  6.79  3.49  1.94    7   54   62   28   6238  18  81
    Mets          135  8.71 12.08  6.39  3.16  2.02    5   42   51   34   6191  13  95
    Astros        141  8.51 11.95  7.10  3.28  2.17    4   39   61   26   6114  14  83
    Expos         145  8.86 11.79  6.28  2.77  2.27    6   47   45   26   6151  14 112
    Cardinals     129  9.11 12.55  5.36  3.27  1.64    4   46   79   27   6254  22  95
    Phillies      167  9.03 12.89  5.45  3.65  1.49    5   35   86   35   6265  23 109
    Pirates       164  8.58 12.21  5.69  3.50  1.63   10   61   60   22   6131  18 110
    Reds          170  9.21 12.35  5.69  3.01  1.89    2   33   68   22   6188  13 108
    Padres        175  8.80 12.81  5.63  3.78  1.49    6   55   62   36   6206  21  94
    Cubs          159  9.56 13.67  6.42  3.94  1.63    4   58   67   27   6311  29 104
    Braves        163  9.64 13.59  5.28  3.70  1.43    4   42   55   39   6270   9 122
    TOTALS       1824  8.95 12.53  6.04  3.41  1.77   65  571  782  349  74521 219


    Code:
     1987 NL TEAM HITTING STATS
    
    TEAM          AB     R    H     2B   3B   HR   HR%    RBI   BB   SO     SB    CS  AVG SLG  OBA  OPS
    Mets          5601   823  1499  287   34  192  3.43   771   592  1012   159   49 .268 .434 .339 .773 
    Cardinals     5500   798  1449  252   49   94  1.71   746   644   933   248   72 .263 .378 .340 .718 
    Giants        5608   783  1458  274   32  205  3.66   731   511  1094   126   97 .260 .430 .324 .754 
    Reds          5560   783  1478  262   29  192  3.45   747   514   928   169   46 .266 .427 .330 .757 
    Braves        5428   747  1401  284   24  152  2.80   696   641   834   135   68 .258 .403 .339 .742 
    Expos         5527   741  1467  310   39  120  2.17   695   501   918   166   74 .265 .401 .328 .729 
    Pirates       5536   723  1464  282   45  131  2.37   684   535   914   140   58 .264 .403 .330 .732 
    Cubs          5583   720  1475  244   33  209  3.74   683   504  1064   109   48 .264 .432 .326 .758 
    Phillies      5475   702  1390  248   51  169  3.09   662   587  1109   111   49 .254 .410 .327 .737 
    Padres        5456   668  1419  209   48  113  2.07   621   577   992   198   91 .260 .378 .332 .710 
    Astros        5485   648  1386  238   28  122  2.22   603   526   936   162   46 .253 .373 .318 .691 
    Dodgers       5517   635  1389  236   23  125  2.27   594   445   923   128   59 .252 .371 .309 .680 
    TOTALS       66276  8771 17275 3126  435 1824  2.75  8233  6577 11657  1851  757 .261 .404 .328 .732 
    
    TEAM           RC   TB     EBH  ISO  SEC  BPA  IBB  HBP GIDP  SAC   SF  OUTS  PA  PARK
    Mets           866  2430   513 .166 .292 .490   74   31   94   70   39  4354  6333  95
    Cardinals      756  2081   395 .115 .264 .450   61   18  126   84   51  4384  6297  95
    Giants         784  2411   511 .170 .266 .467   73   39   99   55   35  4436  6248  89
    Reds           809  2374   483 .161 .276 .475   55   31  129   57   34  4348  6196 108
    Braves         763  2189   460 .145 .276 .456   82   38  133   86   34  4348  6227 122
    Expos          762  2215   469 .135 .243 .449   77   35  100   57   42  4333  6162 112
    Pirates        751  2229   458 .138 .250 .448   67   29  121   71   51  4373  6222 110
    Cubs           803  2412   486 .168 .269 .471   45   21  109   59   30  4354  6197 104
    Phillies       758  2247   468 .157 .275 .455   51   25  133   63   40  4370  6190 109
    Padres         729  2063   370 .118 .243 .435   75   27  122   81   36  4367  6177  94
    Astros         692  2046   388 .120 .237 .427   52   24  115   58   50  4368  6143  83
    Dodgers        647  2046   384 .119 .212 .409   70   31  126   82   39  4434  6114  81
    TOTALS        9120 26743  5385 .143 .259 .453  782  349 1407  823  481 52469 74506
    0 Value Over Replacement Poster


    "Sit over here next to Johnathan (Bench)...sit right here, he's smart."--Sparky Anderson

  7. #6
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    Here's a look at some of the stats each club had vs the league average.

    It highlights how incredibly bad the pitching was in 2005.

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1987
    
    AVERAGE                         DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                      -.003     .266     .269   
    
    EXTRA BASE HITS                 DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                          8      483      475   
    
    OBA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                      -.009     .330     .339   
    
    RUNS                            DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                         16      783      767   
    
    RUNS CREATED/GAME               DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       0.01     5.02     5.01   
    
    SECONDARY AVERAGE               DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       .001     .284     .283   
    
    SLG                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       .008     .427     .419   
    
    STOLEN BASES                    DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                          3      169      166   
    
    TOTAL AVERAGE                   DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       .001     .715     .714   
    
    WALKS                           DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                        -64      514      578   
    
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    2005
    
    AVERAGE                         DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                      -.007     .261     .268   
    
    EXTRA BASE HITS                 DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                         58      572      514   
    
    OBA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       .000     .339     .339   
    
    RUNS                            DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                         64      820      756   
    
    RUNS CREATED/GAME               DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       0.39     5.46     5.07   
    
    SECONDARY AVERAGE               DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       .034     .308     .274   
    
    SLG                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       .019     .446     .428   
    
    STOLEN BASES                    DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                        -18       72       90   
    
    TOTAL AVERAGE                   DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       .036     .754     .719   
    
    WALKS                           DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                         60      611      551   
    
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1987
    
    
    BASERUNNERS/9 IP                DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       0.00    12.35    12.53   
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       -.16     4.24     4.09   
    
    HITS/9 IP                       DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       -.26     9.21     8.95   
    
    HOMERUNS                        DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                        -18      170      152   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/9 IP                 DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       -.34     5.69     6.04   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/WALKS                DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       0.12     1.89     1.77   
    
    WALKS/9 IP                      DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       0.40     3.01     3.41   
    
    
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    2005
    
    
    BASERUNNERS/9 IP                DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       1.00    14.00    12.76   
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       -.95     5.18     4.23   
    
    HITS/9 IP                       DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                      -1.32    10.41     9.09   
    
    HOMERUNS                        DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                        -56      219      163   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/9 IP                 DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       -.57     6.00     6.57   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/WALKS                DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       -.05     1.94     1.99   
    
    WALKS/9 IP                      DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                       0.20     3.09     3.29

  8. #7
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by macro
    The Reds had a chance to improve that staff by trading for Rick Reuschel from the Pirates, but they thought the asking price too high. The Giants pulled the trigger on a deal, and came into Riverfront in early August down 4 1/2 games to the Reds. They proceeded to sweep a five-game series and leave town with a 1/2-game lead.

    I don't remember Reuschel being all that great, but I think the combination of the Reds not getting him and the Giants getting him kinda demoralized the Reds players. I seem to recall some of them complaining in the papers.
    I thought Rick Reuschel was a solid pitcher for a couple of years during that time... Maybe even a number 1 or 2 a couple of years. I might be mistaken but I seem to remember him having a really good game during a playoff also around that time...
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  9. #8
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    I don't remember Reuschel being all that great, but I think the combination of the Reds not getting him and the Giants getting him kinda demoralized the Reds players. I seem to recall some of them complaining in the papers.
    That was just one of the trades that put the Giants over the top that season, they were way active and all the Giants fans were just as surprised by their success.

    These three in season trades are awesome retrospect.

    Traded Chris Brown, Keith Comstock, Mark Davis and Mark Grant to San Diego Padres in exchange for Dave Dravecky, Craig Lefferts and Kevin Mitchell.

    Traded Mackey Sasser and $50000 to Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for Don Robinson.

    Traded Jeff Robinson and Scott Medvin to Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for Rick Reuschel.

  10. #9
    He sure could hit HalMorrisRules's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    IIRC, the Reds could have gotten Rick Reuschel but for whatever reason they wouldnt pull the trigger. When he went to the Giants I was so ticked off. Rick Reuschel would have been the difference for us and instead he went to our rival and he WAS the difference for them. Reuschel had that slide step and was quick to the mound with runners on base. Not much of an "athlete" but was a very effective pitcher.

  11. #10
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    4,266

    Re: '87 Reds

    ahh. A Chris "strained eyelid" Brown sighting.
    4009



  12. #11
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    Maybe another factor was that the '87 team had a better defense than last years team. I don't have any numbers to back it up, but it seemed that the '87 team had a decent defense.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  13. #12
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by BigKlu
    Maybe another factor was that the '87 team had a better defense than last years team. I don't have any numbers to back it up, but it seemed that the '87 team had a decent defense.
    Code:
    ERRORS                           E        A     
    1    Kurt Stillwell               23      247   
    2    Barry Larkin                 19      358   
    3    Dave Parker                  11       17   
    4    Ron Oester                   10      186   
    T5   Buddy Bell                    7      241   
    T5   Bo Diaz                       7       70   
    T7   Nick Esasky                   6       41   
    T7   Kal Daniels                   6        5   
    T9   Ron Robinson                  5       18   
    T9   Dave Concepcion               5      169   
    T11  Eric Davis                    4       10   
    T11  Paul O'Neill                  4        2   
    T11  Jeff Treadway                 4       48   
    T14  Tom Browning                  3       23   
    T14  Terry McGriff                 3       14   
    
    
    ERRORS                           E        A     
    1    Felipe Lopez                 17      369   
    T2   Edwin Encarnacion            10      116   
    T2   Rich Aurilia                 10      295   
    4    Adam Dunn                     9       17   
    5    Ryan Freel                    8      159   
    6    Ramon Ortiz                   7       28   
    7    Joe Randa                     6      148   
    8    Jason LaRue                   5       52   
    9    Wily Mo Pena                  4        2   
    T10  Javier Valentin               3       28   
    T10  Ken Griffey Jr.               3        6   
    T12  Matt Belisle                  2       10   
    T12  Sean Casey                    2       55   
    T12  Austin Kearns                 2        8   
    T12  Kent Mercker                  2       11   
    T12  Rainer Olmedo                 2       46   
    T12  D'Angelo Jimenez              2       63

  14. #13
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    The '87 Reds ranked 15th in defensive efficiency at .698. The '05 Reds ranked 28th at .678.

    The bullpen was a decided for the '87 club and it had a bunch of good, young players. The '88 Reds would lead all of MLB in DER at .726. Eric Davis, Barry Larkin, Paul O'Neill, Chris Sabo, Kal Daniels, Tom Browning, Rob Dibble and Joe Oliver were emerging from the system. Jose Rijo, Danny Jackson, Norm Charlton, Hal Morris and Mariano Duncan would all show up in the next few years. All of these guys were in their 20s.

    And Pythagoras, as always, helps tell the story. The '87 Reds finshed 84-78 because they played like an 84-78 team, outscoring the opposition by 31 runs. The 2005 Reds played like 75-87 team, getting outscored by 69 runs. Relatively speaking, the '87 Reds were 100 net runs better than the '05 model. So you're talking about a team with broader position player skills (the '87 model could run too), better pitching and a better foundation on which to build. Honestly, I don't recommend comparing these Reds to any other Reds club that's been seen in many of our lifetimes. You've got to go back 50+ years before you run into something similar.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  15. #14
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: '87 Reds

    The top starters for each team and their ERA+

    1987
    SP Ted Power 94
    SP *Tom Browning 85
    SP Bill Gullickson 88
    SP *Guy Hoffman 97

    2005
    SP *Eric Milton 69
    SP Aaron Harang 116
    SP Ramon Ortiz 83
    SP *Brandon Claussen 105
    SP Luke Hudson 70
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  16. #15
    Member
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    356

    Re: '87 Reds

    I was going to go to Browning's perfect game but passed on it because of the weather
    "Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game. " Jim Mora


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