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Thread: Here We Go Steelers

  1. #226
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Even if it was a conspiracy, what would you like the Steelers to do......give back the Lombardi trophy?
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  3. #227
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    I never contended that they did. Nor did I ask the Steelers if they outplayed the Seahawks.

    I asked M2, because he seemed to hold that opinion.

    So the outcome of a four year old AFC championship game is not relevant to that discussion.
    Sure it's relevant because a team doesn't have to out-gain or out-possess a team to outplay them.

    Seattle came out with a gameplan that included the concept that they could dink and dunk outside passes to protect from Pitt's outside pass rush. Then they consistently ran Alexander around the ends in an attempt to capitalize on the outside 'backer's overpursuit. While that may have been the smart play considering that trying to push at the middle of the Pitt defense is near suicide (Hampton, Farrior, Polamalu), it meant that the Seahawks need a bunch of plays to actually sustain drives. Heck, it's how Pittsburgh used to play prior to the Willie Parker's emergence- need to sustain long multi-play drives and just about anything that happens negatively would screw it up.

    Then when the 'hawks tried to throw at the middle of the Pitt defense, they saw dropped passes, holding penalties while trying to protect from the outside speed rush, or the Jackson pushoff.

    It's interesting to me that no one has figured out that Holmgren and Co., even with their vaunted O-Line, gameplanned in a way that sacrificed distance for protection. That's fine if your dink-and-dunk gameplan can soften up the middle for a couple big plays. But it doesn't work if you can't get those big plays to happen considering the amount of time you're taking to set up the potential big plays when coupled with the fragility of having to sustain long drives.

    After a while, the other team is going to figure out what you're doing and gameplan to capitalize. Because of their commitment to the dink-and-dunk, Seattle had exactly one meaningful drive of over 40 yards. One. Not one scoring drive for the Seahawks started further back than their own 49 yard line.

    Meanwhile, the Pittsburgh coaching staff adjusted. The game was like a boxing match where one guy is landing a high percentage of jabs, but then he sees a left hook, an overhand right, and a haymaker to the chin to take him out in the 10th round. Doesn't matter who you think was "ahead" on the "scorecard" at that point because if you're the guy standing over your sprawled-out opponent, you done just outboxed him.
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  4. #228
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Meanwhile, the Pittsburgh coaching staff adjusted. The game was like a boxing match where one guy is landing a high percentage of jabs, but then he sees a left hook, an overhand right, and a haymaker to the chin to take him out in the 10th round. Doesn't matter who you think was "ahead" on the "scorecard" at that point because if you're the guy standing over your sprawled-out opponent, you done just outboxed him.
    The Steelers didn't really "outbox" the Seahawks, though. As we've been pointing out all through this thread, they relied on a couple of fluke, seat-of-your-pants plays and some bad calls. That's not "being good" -- that's "being lucky."

    They have the trophy, though, regardless of whether or not they earned it.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  5. #229
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    The Steelers didn't really "outbox" the Seahawks, though. As we've been pointing out all through this thread, they relied on a couple of fluke, seat-of-your-pants plays and some bad calls. That's not "being good" -- that's "being lucky."

    They have the trophy, though, regardless of whether or not they earned it.
    Ah. "Fluke" plays. Just "lucky". That's hilarious. Which plays were those again?

    Was it where Roethisberger had the presence of mind to stay behind the line of scrimmage on a 3rd-and-28 while waiting for a receiver to create enough separation to snag a 37-yard pass?

    Or was it the 75-yard TD scamper by a blazing-fast Willie Parker- a guy who already had an 80-yard run earlier in the season?

    Maybe it was the gimmicky 43-yard TD pass from El to Ward? I mean, no way anyone could sniff that out considering the Steelers had run the same play successfully against the Browns in 2005. It's nice to have three QB's on the field at all times.

    Possibly Roethlisberger's shovel pass to Ward while scrambling that resulted in perpetuating a drive? God forbid that Pittsburgh has a mobile QB who's constantly finding ways to make plays outside the pocket. He's been doing that for two years. Maybe you'll figure that out sometime next season?

    Sorry, man, but it's pretty obvious that you don't really understand what the Steelers are capable of doing offensively. There was no Music City Miracle. No Doug Flutie Boston College hail mary for a TD. No one had to run through a marching band to score after four or five laterals to end the game.

    Instead, what you saw was a Steelers team that made plays when they desperately needed to make plays.

    It was up to the Seahawks to stop them. They didn't. So the Lombardi Trophy goes to the Steel City BECAUSE the Steelers earned it. Such is football.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  6. #230
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Ah. "Fluke" plays. Just "lucky". That's hilarious. Which plays were those again?

    Was it where Roethisberger had the presence of mind to stay behind the line of scrimmage on a 3rd-and-28 while waiting for a receiver to create enough separation to snag a 37-yard pass?

    Or was it the 75-yard TD scamper by a blazing-fast Willie Parker- a guy who already had an 80-yard run earlier in the season?

    Maybe it was the gimmicky 43-yard TD pass from El to Ward? I mean, no way anyone could sniff that out considering the Steelers had run the same play successfully against the Browns in 2005. It's nice to have three QB's on the field at all times.

    Possibly Roethlisberger's shovel pass to Ward while scrambling that resulted in perpetuating a drive? God forbid that Pittsburgh has a mobile QB who's constantly finding ways to make plays outside the pocket. He's been doing that for two years. Maybe you'll figure that out sometime next season?

    Sorry, man, but it's pretty obvious that you don't really understand what the Steelers are capable of doing offensively. There was no Music City Miracle. No Doug Flutie Boston College hail mary for a TD. No one had to run through a marching band to score after four or five laterals to end the game.

    Instead, what you saw was a Steelers team that made plays when they desperately needed to make plays.

    It was up to the Seahawks to stop them. They didn't. So the Lombardi Trophy goes to the Steel City BECAUSE the Steelers earned it. Such is football.
    Amen brother.
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  7. #231
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Ah. "Fluke" plays. Just "lucky". That's hilarious. Which plays were those again?
    Classic. "Our team isn't lucky, just good." That's straight from a social psychology textbook. You don't see any of the lucky things that happened to the Steelers. You think all their success is based on skill. Casual observers see it differently.

    Was it where Roethisberger had the presence of mind to stay behind the line of scrimmage on a 3rd-and-28 while waiting for a receiver to create enough separation to snag a 37-yard pass?
    More blind-eyed rationalizations.

    You praise Roethlisberger's presence of mind for staying behind the line of scrimmage, and you conveniently ignore the fact that he narrowly avoided a sack, then benefitted from Grant Wistrom simply falling down as he pursued the QB out of the pocket.

    The underhanded shovel pass to Hines Ward was another example of a fluke play that happened to go the Steelers' way.

    And I don't even have to mention the luck they experienced on defense thanks to the officials. See the previous 1000 posts on this thread.

    Sorry, man, but it's pretty obvious that you don't really understand what the Steelers are capable of doing offensively.
    Yeah, clearly they draw up offensive plays that involve poor pass protection, mad scrambles, and clumsy defenders.
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  8. #232
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Classic. "Our team isn't lucky, just good." That's straight from a social psychology textbook. You don't see any of the lucky things that happened to the Steelers. You think all their success is based on skill. Casual observers see it differently.



    More blind-eyed rationalizations.

    You praise Roethlisberger's presence of mind for staying behind the line of scrimmage, and you conveniently ignore the fact that he narrowly avoided a sack, then benefitted from Grant Wistrom simply falling down as he pursued the QB out of the pocket.

    The underhanded shovel pass to Hines Ward was another example of a fluke play that happened to go the Steelers' way.

    And I don't even have to mention the luck they experienced on defense thanks to the officials. See the previous 1000 posts on this thread.



    Yeah, clearly they draw up offensive plays that involve poor pass protection, mad scrambles, and clumsy defenders.
    You're forgetting the "luck" involved with having the two players that hooked up for a 66 yard gain on the first offensive play of the game of the first playoff game also get hurt on that play. I mean, what are the odds?
    Last edited by traderumor; 02-08-2006 at 02:47 PM.
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  9. #233
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    You praise Roethlisberger's presence of mind for staying behind the line of scrimmage, and you conveniently ignore the fact that he narrowly avoided a sack, then benefitted from Grant Wistrom simply falling down as he pursued the QB out of the pocket.
    The underhanded shovel pass to Hines Ward was another example of a fluke play that happened to go the Steelers' way.
    Come on...I'm going to call shenanigans on this. The fact that Roethlisberger "narrowly avoided a sack" speaks clearly to his pocket presence and ability as a quarterback. That's like saying Brett Favre wasn't a great QB, he was just really lucky to keep avoiding horrid sacks whenever plays broke down and he moved to find open targets.

    All plays of that sort are a combination of lucky and talent. Talented players create thier own "luck" through the use of their superior skills to keep plays alive and find ways to make good things happen.

    I'm shocked at the level of bitterness surrounding this Pittsburgh victory. They clearly proved their talent as a team in winning 3 consecutive playoff games on the road, beating Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Denver -- all of whom I believe would've beaten Seattle in a head-to-head matchup at a neutral site. If it's still the Carson Palmer/Bengals thing -- get over yourselves. Seriously... it was a horrible injury and I feel bad for Carson and the team, but EVERY team suffers through injuries -- Chicago played an entire season with a rookie QB, Carolina lost Stephen Davis mid-season plus DeShaun Foster AND Nick Goings in the playoffs, Tampa Bay lost their starting QB in week 6, the New York Jets lost so many quarterbacks they were playing Brooks Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury and Vinny Testaverde. It sucks, it ruins a season, but you sack up and deal with it.
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  10. #234
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Come on...I'm going to call shenanigans on this. The fact that Roethlisberger "narrowly avoided a sack" speaks clearly to his pocket presence and ability as a quarterback. That's like saying Brett Favre wasn't a great QB, he was just really lucky to keep avoiding horrid sacks whenever plays broke down and he moved to find open targets.

    Do the Steelers' count on that magical ability, or do they breathe a sigh of relief when it happens?

    Circumstances unfolded extremely favorably. Roethlisberger didn't telekinetically trip Wistrom. His underhanded toss to Ward isn't something they practice regularly.

    The Steelers utterly dominated the Colts and the Broncos -- no question about it. No luck involved -- they hit those teams in the mouth. They did the same to the Palmer-less Bengals in the second half of that game as well.

    Against the Seahawks, they got lucky on several occasions. I don't know why that's so hard for Steeler fans to admit.
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  11. #235
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Against the Seahawks, they got lucky on several occasions. I don't know why that's so hard for Steeler fans to admit.

    Maybee we haven gotten use to Ben making plays like that the past two years. So yes, It becomes an expectation. When Ben moves from the pocket, he buys time for his recievers to find holles and he has an ability to keep his eyes down field and spot openings.

    Its lucky perhaps if its isolated, with Ben its a more common happening.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  12. #236
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    The Steelers didn't really "outbox" the Seahawks, though.
    I think you missed the point of the boxing analogy. The Seahawks tried to pepper the Steelers while the Steelers worked the body and went for the knockout. One team was trying to steal the fight, the other was swinging to end it.

    My take has always been that football favors the puncher.
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  13. #237
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Classic. "Our team isn't lucky, just good." That's straight from a social psychology textbook. You don't see any of the lucky things that happened to the Steelers. You think all their success is based on skill. Casual observers see it differently.
    That's why they're called casual observers.

    More blind-eyed rationalizations.

    You praise Roethlisberger's presence of mind for staying behind the line of scrimmage, and you conveniently ignore the fact that he narrowly avoided a sack, then benefitted from Grant Wistrom simply falling down as he pursued the QB out of the pocket.

    The underhanded shovel pass to Hines Ward was another example of a fluke play that happened to go the Steelers' way.

    Yeah, clearly they draw up offensive plays that involve poor pass protection, mad scrambles, and clumsy defenders.
    And you're conveniently attempting to position sack avoidance as a non-skill based event.

    Heady mobile Quarterbacks have the ability to make something out of broken plays consistently.

    Tarkington had it. Stabler had it. Elway had it. Young had it. McNair had it. Favre had it. And Roethlisberger has it.

    It's part of a QB's skill set.

    And I don't even have to mention the luck they experienced on defense thanks to the officials. See the previous 1000 posts on this thread.
    1,000 bitter posts are just 1,000 bitter posts. Nothing more.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  14. #238
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    I'm not bitter. I just think it was poorly officiated. I have nothing agaisnt Pittsburgh I dont think think their offense was lucky one bit. All their big plays on offense were just what the Steelers have done all year. As for the defense yeah they got lucky a few times and were bailed out by the stripes. If you win the Total Yards, the turnover battle, and time of possesion in the NFL you should win 99% of the time. To lose by 11 shows that something was up. Also though, I think Ben is much better then he showed in that game, I kind of thought he had a rough night.


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