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Thread: Here We Go Steelers

  1. #181
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    These are judgment calls, so calls of intellectual dishonesty is as ticky tack as that call was.
    OK.

    So when a guy pushes off in front of the ref its a "judgment call" - forget the fact that the push off completely disallowed the defender to make any effort whatsoever to make a play - judgment call. Forget that the fact that anytime a defender or a receiver "extends" the arm its textbook interference - judgment call.

    So what, he pushed off to gain an unfair advantage - judgment call.
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  3. #182
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232
    I'm a Bengals fan, but also a huge Big Ben fan dating back to his days at Miami University. Thus, I didn't really care who won the game. However, I saw it a lot differently.

    The finesse label attached to the Seahawks is a misnomer to me. This is a team that ran the ball 25 times for a 5.5 avg. per carry. That seems like someone up front has to be getting physical.

    And the Seahawks absolutely needed to come out throwing the ball to start the game. That's been the recipe that has destroyed the Steelers all year (1st Indy game, 2nd Cincy game, start of 3rd Cincy game). 'Blitzburgh's' D is at its best when it has the opponent in an obvious passing down and can pin its ears back and rush the passer from all angles. Seattle, on a whole, did a good job of mixing the run and pass and avoiding the sacks (and subsequent TOs) that ruined all the Steelers' previous playoff opponents.

    This takes us to the 4th Q and Seattle about to cap off a devastating 97-yard drive to take a 17-14 lead. Instead, as had been beaten into the ground, the holding penalty occurs, Hasselbeck throws the INT, Randle-El throws the clinching TD.

    I hate the argument how a 'championship' team should be able to overcome adversity. It's a cop-out 99% of the time. Every team overcomes adversity at some point, but it cannot overcome adversity 100% of the time. (I would say Seattle overcame adversity when they lost the NFL MVP in round 2 after 6 carries, or how they overcame a nullified TD in the 1st Q to put themselves in a position to take a 4th Q lead, etc.)

    Let's reverse the argument and say Pitt is whistled for holding on the 3rd and 28 hail mary to Ward. If Pitt doesn't score and go on to win the game, is it fair to say Pitt folded after one holding call? I say absolutely not. Which brings me to...

    Let's assume Seattle scores to take a 17-14 lead. Pittsburgh now gets the ball relatively deep in their own territory and must now ask Big Ben, who had barely shown a pulse all day, to lead them down the field to tie or take the lead. Maybe I'm naive, but I say big-time advantage to Seattle.
    I don't know what worked best against Pittsburgh during the season, but when you refuse to run your offense between the hashmarks in the first half then I say you've laid the groundwork for a bad day. It certainly didn't put points on the board.

    Alexander impressed me and, IMO, Seattle woefully underused him. Pittsburgh basically pre-intimidated Seattle out of using its best weapon for much of the game.

    I'll submit perhaps the gameplan you've suggested worked best for other teams because that's what they do best.

    And Pittsburgh did overcome adversity in that game, though self-inflicted. It could have salted the game away in the 3rd quarter, but for that interception and ensuing touchdown.

    This was always Billy Conn vs. Joe Louis. The Steelers were always going to get their chances to put the Seahawks away. It's the unavoidable consequence of the game. When they got the turnover in the 4th they pounced. When they got the ball back after that, they chewed up more than four minutes of game time and all of Seattle's timeouts.

    The Steelers went 8-15 on 3rd down. The Seahawks went 5-17. What I saw was one team built to finish and another trying to survive. Seattle did a nice job of stringing it out, but the outcome, to me at least, never particularly seemed in doubt.
    Last edited by M2; 02-07-2006 at 11:52 AM.
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  4. #183
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    I don't know what worked best against Pittsburgh during the season, but when you refuse to run your offense between the hashmarks in the first half then I say you've laid the groundwork for a bad day.
    Their game plan was beating Pittsburgh like a dirty rug through the entire first half.

    Did you honestly feel like the Steelers outplayed the Seahawks?
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  5. #184
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy
    So what, he pushed off to gain an unfair advantage - judgment call.
    It is a judgement call. Did he push, or was his arm extended. Did he push off because the DB was holding onto him. Technically, any contact beyond 5 yards by the DB is "illegal".

    In this case, the DB made contact w/the receiver as they ran toward the endzone. The official made the judgement that the contact was incidental.

    He could've done the same thing with the play in the endzone. I'm not a Steeler fan or Seahawk fan. I thought that he should've let the call go, and it appeared that he was responding to the DB's complaint rather than making the call.

    I had the same issue w/the Roethesburger TD run. The official first ran in to spot the ball short of the goal line -- then he raised his arms. What changed his mind - if Big Ben did get over the goal line, it was when he was in the air not on the ground.

    Whether or not the officiating affected the outcome is irrelevant to me. The NFL has a bigger problem -- bad officiating in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. And it's worse when it's one-sided (Pitt v. Indy; NE v. Denver; Sea v. Pitt).

    I don't know if instant replay is the problem, and officials are using it as a crutch. I don't know if "all-star" teams of officials for the playoffs is a problem (rather than keeping the regular season teams together)...or if they should just hire full-time officials. But the NFL has an image problem regarding officiating, and they'd be better off acting on it rather than hoping it just goes away.

  6. #185
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    I never once sited the espn.com boards. I did site an article from espn.com, just like I sited articles from msn, slate, etc.
    You're right. My apologies. That was macro (ack!).

    BTW...

    http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/527/plane5gg.jpg

    Hopefully, we can put that one to bed now.
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  7. #186
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Their game plan was beating Pittsburgh like a dirty rug through the entire first half.

    Did you honestly feel like the Steelers outplayed the Seahawks?
    You mean the first half where the Steelers outscored the Seahawks 7-3?

    I wasn't all that impressed by the Pittsburgh offense, but Seattle wasn't doing much of anything to vex the Pittsburgh defense. It was low percentage football. Sooner or later you're going to miss when you're constantly throwing to the outside and your drive is going to stop before it gets much of anywhere.

    If Seattle had been pounding the ball up the middle, but not scoring I'd have a different take. In that scenario you're putting a down payment on the other team's pain in the second half. Seattle instead came out with a slap-fight offense that wasn't going to wear anyone down.

    The Seahawk's two scoring drives went 30 and 20 yards. They only went 40+ yards twice. One was the last drive of the game where the Steeler defense was just trying to eat up the clock. The other was the drive that ended in catastrophe for Seattle with the penalty/sack/interception sequence. It was the best the Seahawk offense played all day (and no surprise that Alexander ran for 28 yards on that drive). Meanwhile Pittsburgh had drives of 59, 75, 53 and 56 yards. Seattle wasn't much more than a gnat the Steelers shooed away most of that game.

    So yeah, I think the Steelers outplayed Seattle and fairly substantially. They were the only team on that field capable of doing much damage to the other.
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  8. #187
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds
    It is a judgement call. Did he push, or was his arm extended. Did he push off because the DB was holding onto him. Technically, any contact beyond 5 yards by the DB is "illegal".

    In this case, the DB made contact w/the receiver as they ran toward the endzone. The official made the judgement that the contact was incidental.

    He could've done the same thing with the play in the endzone. I'm not a Steeler fan or Seahawk fan. I thought that he should've let the call go, and it appeared that he was responding to the DB's complaint rather than making the call.

    I had the same issue w/the Roethesburger TD run. The official first ran in to spot the ball short of the goal line -- then he raised his arms. What changed his mind - if Big Ben did get over the goal line, it was when he was in the air not on the ground.

    Whether or not the officiating affected the outcome is irrelevant to me. The NFL has a bigger problem -- bad officiating in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. And it's worse when it's one-sided (Pitt v. Indy; NE v. Denver; Sea v. Pitt).

    I don't know if instant replay is the problem, and officials are using it as a crutch. I don't know if "all-star" teams of officials for the playoffs is a problem (rather than keeping the regular season teams together)...or if they should just hire full-time officials. But the NFL has an image problem regarding officiating, and they'd be better off acting on it rather than hoping it just goes away.
    NJ,

    Do me a favor - if you are watching Sportscenter or the like and they show that replay just watch the DB. When Jackson (who is a good, good receiver whom I like) extends the arm, watch the body of the DB. You'll see that the push causes him to be lifted slightly off the ground.

    If you watch that and see that, then come back and we'll discuss this some more - cause I really don't see how impeding the path of the defender to gain that seperation can be anything but a penalty - and if you still disagree, thats cool, but if you could, just watch for that.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
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  9. #188
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    And by the way, just to clarify - I think the officiating this entire season was putrid. Absolutely terrible and the Giants got screwed on many occasions this year by missed calls or by call after call seemingly going against them.

    The Rothlisberger TD - tough call either way, but the Official seemed to be marking the spot then all of a sudden declares TD, so that was rough. The hold I think was touchy, and the tackle call on Hasselback was horrible.

    But that was, no doubt, interference.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
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  10. #189
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Their game plan was beating Pittsburgh like a dirty rug through the entire first half.

    Did you honestly feel like the Steelers outplayed the Seahawks?
    You think the New England Patriots cared about a word like "outplayed" when they got pushed around by the Steelers and had their offense throttled but scored two Special Teams TD's in the 2001-2002 AFC Championship game en route to their first Super Bowl victory?

    New England netted 15 first downs to Pittsburgh's 23. Pittsburgh put up 306 yards to NE's 259. And Pittsburgh lost 24-17 after their QB made a couple stupid mistakes late in the ballgame. Shades of Super Bowl XL.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  11. #190
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD

    http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/527/plane5gg.jpg

    Hopefully, we can put that one to bed now.
    That hurts my eyes to look at.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  12. #191
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Arguing over which team in this game played better is like arguing which tastes better, haggis or liver and onions.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  13. #192
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    That hurts my eyes to look at.
    I can see the outline of someone in the backround

    We have our suspect
    Go Gators!

  14. #193
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    You mean the first half where the Steelers outscored the Seahawks 7-3?
    Yep. The same half in which Seattle outgained the Steelers, then lost a touchdown on a questionable-at-best call (see previous 1000 posts).

    The same half in which the Steelers got lucky on their scoring drive with TWO scrambling, seat-of-your-pants, chuck-and-duck third down plays, then got a gift touchdown from the line judge.

    I guess if you just look at the score and don't take into account their actual on-field play, it does look like the Steelers did pretty well in the first half.

    Me, I look at it and see a team that got knocked around but managed to survive because it landed a couple of wild, eyes-closed haymakers and ended up on the favorable side of the penalty flag quite a few times.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  15. #194
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    You think the New England Patriots cared about a word like "outplayed" when they got pushed around by the Steelers and had their offense throttled but scored two Special Teams TD's in the 2001-2002 AFC Championship game en route to their first Super Bowl victory?
    I never contended that they did. Nor did I ask the Steelers if they outplayed the Seahawks.

    I asked M2, because he seemed to hold that opinion.

    So the outcome of a four year old AFC championship game is not relevant to that discussion.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  16. #195
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Here We Go Steelers

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    Arguing over which team in this game played better is like arguing which tastes better, haggis or liver and onions.
    That's easy. Both teams played like crap. The only people who really deserved to win that game were Hines Ward and Willie Parker. Randle El should have been the starting QB for what it's worth too.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!


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