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Thread: Ouch! Bill Cower....

  1. #61
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    I was chatting over on ochre's site during the game. It can be verified that said the game was over the second Palmer was carted off the field. I knew going in it would probably be close. If I were a betting man, I would have steered clear of that game. I never thought the Bengals would surely win. I thought they had a chance, that's it. But I knew they had NO CHANCE at all with Kitna at the helm. None. Even when they were ahead at the half, I knew the game was over. Of course I didn't stop watching. What does that have to diwht anything? Are you going to watch the Reds this year even though you know they have no chance to win?

    And I certainly think the Steeler defense deserves some credit. They're areally good defense. But what they did AFTER the game in question has no bearance on what happened in THAT game. These two teams play each other twice every year. There were no secrets. All I'm suggesting is that it is almost a certainty the Bengals offense would have played better.

    Yet you and other Bengal haters want to act like Kitna made no difference at all. Of course, the Pitt defense gets credit, but it's silly not to at least acknowledge that they were facing an inferior product than what otherwise would have been. That's all I'm suggesting. Do you at least admit that Kitna is inferior to Palmer?
    Me, a Bengal hater? Come now, Mike, is that the best you can do? I come on here and present facts and you act like I sit at home and throw darts at my Marvin Lewis dartboard. Just because I'm not a Bengals fan doesn't mean I hate them. I'm not the one spouting hate here. That's Bengal Fan, not me. I had Palmer on my fantasy team this year. You think I wasn't rooting for him?

    I'm glad you finally want to give some credit to the Steelers. The Bengal offense may have played better with Palmer at the helm but it's no sure thing. All I'm saying is that PIT held an Indy team with Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison who was playing at home to below their average. They held the 7th highest scoring team in Denver who was also playing at home to below their average. Then they played Seattle with MVP Shawn Alexander and held them under their average. It stands to reason they would have held the Bengals - even if Carson was playing - to below their average. Then again Carson may have hung 40 on them, you never know. If you believe Kitna is an inferior QB to Palmer, then it stands to reason that he would not do as well against the Steelers as Palmer may have. I'm not saying Kitna is a Pro Bowl QB but just that the PIT defense may have had something to do with how bad he looked. He may have gotten away with the way he played against Houston or Detroit or even Cleveland. But against the Steelers he didn't have as much margin for error.
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  3. #62
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Matt said the game was over when he got hurt. Did you stop watching the game after Palmer was hurt? If you believed the game was over when that happened, why didn't you just stop watching? Matt doesn't know if Palmer would have made the difference, nor do you or I since, as far as I know, none of us can foretell the future. Would Palmer given the Bengals a better chance? Sure but it's not from a sure thing that the Bengals would have won like so many Bengals fans believe.

    You're a stats guy, MWM. Look at those stats. The Steelers held 3 top offenses to well below their season averages for scoring. Those offenses included Shawn Alexander, the NFL MVP and Peyton Manning last year's MVP. Not exactly a bunch of stiffs, wouldn't you say? Yet you and other Bengals fans want to blame Kitna for the loss? I know it pains you and other Bengals fans to do it but give PIT's defense a little credit in that victory.
    I haven't seen Bengals fans blaming Kitna for the loss. I've seen Bengals fans recognize that Kitna is about three rungs down on the ladder from Carson Palmer as a QB. Kitna is a mediocre QB with an average arm and above average QB smarts. Of course, the Pittsburgh D is good, but Palmer did very well with that same D at Heinz Field (well, here come Steel to point out how poorly he did at PB Stadium in game 1 between the two teams, Hi Steel ).
    Can't win with 'em

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  4. #63
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    My friends and I call Kitna "The Commodore" for two reasons. The first reason: he looks like a career navy man with that buzz cut. The second reason: Much like 70's funk icons The Commodores, when he's good, he's very good, but when he's bad, he's horrible. When he's on, he's "Brick House," but most of the time, he's "Three Times a Lady."
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  5. #64
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Odds would not be as good. But they actually managed to lead the Steelers at the half so they must have been doing something right despite Kitna, yes?
    You don't win games by playing a 1/2 of football.

    The Steelers made the Bengals offense irrelevant in the 2nd half by taking away the underneath pass. Kitna does not have enough zip or accuraccy on his longer throws to be considered a real threat. If you do that against Palmer you will get lit up like a Christmas tree more often than not.

    I doubt you could find a Bengals fan alive that would have taken a 17-14 lead at half with Kitna at the controls over a 0-0 with Palmer under center. Not a one. Zero. Zip. Nada.

    And if you believe that Kitna was the problem, then you better be praying every night that Palmer comes back by the first game next year or else the Bengals are doomed since they can't win without Palmer.
    Kitna played a very good first half, and then a completely useless 2nd half. He was a large part of the problem, no question.

    I'd say everyone in Bengaltown says their prayers every night that Palmer comes back 100% by the first game next year. I'll be totally stunned if the Bengals make the playoffs without Palmer playing at 95+% in at least 12-14 of the games.

    Jon Kitna's is not a quarterback that I want on the field if I am hoping to go deep in the playoffs. He is just to easy too shut-down. You would have heard the same analysis from me the year he went to the pro bowl. I was estatic when Palmer was named the starter.

    Still, Kitna seems to have quite a bit of value as a mentor, and he is fine as a backup QB IMO. The bottom 1/4 of the league is STARTING flotsam.

    I don't expect the Bengals to make the playoffs next year, with or without Palmer, as I don't expect Palmer to be 100% early in the year even if he is playing. They might suprise me as Palmer could be farther along than I'll give him credit for, and a nice draft/FA class coupled with the return of Williams and a year of maturation for Thurman and Pollack could make the defense quite a bit more stout.

    GL

  6. #65
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    My friends and I call Kitna "The Commodore" for two reasons. The first reason: he looks like a career navy man with that buzz cut. The second reason: Much like 70's funk icons The Commodores, when he's good, he's very good, but when he's bad, he's horrible. When he's on, he's "Brick House," but most of the time, he's "Three Times a Lady."
    Or as Buckwheat sang "Dee Dimes a Mady"
    Can't win with 'em

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  7. #66
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    What do you mean *finally*? I never didn't want to give them credit. They were my fantasy defense all year and high draft pick for me. I knew they're good. My point, and the only point I was ever trying to make, is that it's perfectly logical to think that a QB the caliber of Palmer would have made a significant impact on the game. You seem to be position the argument that Pitt's defense is good, therefore the quality of QB makes no difference. It does.

    And I'm with gonelong, without Palmer the Bengals have little chance to do much of anything next year. But I do think the defense will be much better.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  8. #67
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    That would be the illustrious Cleveland Browns. While not sacking Palmer, they held him to full-game season lows of 93 Yards passing and a 48.1 completion percentage.
    And a QB Rating of 53.5 (his lowest)
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  9. #68
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Maybe the "re-match" comes sooner rather than later:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06045/654912.stm

    Steelers playing in Thursday opener
    Tuesday, February 14, 2006

    By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



    As part of the treasure the Steelers earned with their Super Bowl victory, the NFL will open the 2006 season with a nationally televised night game Sept. 7 in Pittsburgh.

    This will be the fourth time the NFL has staged a Thursday night, one-game kickoff to the season. It will be the first NFL telecast of a regular-season game on NBC since that network was replaced in 1998 by CBS, the network for the AFC.

    An opponent will be selected later, but the league will try to pair the most attractive team on the Steelers' home schedule. Among the possibilities are Cincinnati, the AFC North Division champ who lost in the first round of the playoffs to the Steelers, and Denver, who lost the AFC championship game to them.

    The NFL also holds various events around the game.

    "Expectations are there will be kickoff events in conjunction with the game in Pittsburgh," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said.

    The past two years the game was held in Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Mass., with Elton John playing the venue two years ago, and Green Day and Ozzy Osbourne last year. The Thursday night kickoff became a tradition in Tampa Bay in 2002, when the defending Super Bowl champion Buccaneers played the New York Jets.

    The NFL will follow the Thursday night opener with a full schedule of games Sunday. Aiello said the NFL also may schedule a Monday night doubleheader to close out kickoff weekend.

    He also confirmed that the league is discussing a regular-season game that would be played in London next season.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  10. #69
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    ...the league will try to pair the most attractive team on the Steelers' home schedule. Among the possibilities are Cincinnati, the AFC North Division champ who lost in the first round of the playoffs to the Steelers, and Denver, who lost the AFC championship game to them.
    I really don't see it being Cincinnati. The schedule is released in April, and there will be no way to know if Palmer will be ready for the season opener at that time. I really don't think they want to have Pittsburgh hosting a team that has David Klingler or somebody at quarterback for the season opener. I'm guessing it will be Denver.

  11. #70
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    I think the Bengals should look at signing QB Brian Griese.

    He could really help if CP is not ready by the season opener.

    I still say that if rehab goes well CP should be ready to play though.

    Just make sure he wears leg braces made of kryptonite.

  12. #71
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger
    I think the Bengals should look at signing QB Brian Griese.

    He could really help if CP is not ready by the season opener.

    I still say that if rehab goes well CP should be ready to play though.

    Just make sure he wears leg braces made of kryptonite.
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  13. #72
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    And a QB Rating of 53.5 (his lowest)
    Again, what was the final score of that game?

    I seem to recall the sainted Ben Roethlisberger running up a rating in the 20s in the Super Bowl. Maybe he should send his ring back.

  14. #73
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    Quote Originally Posted by macro
    I really don't see it being Cincinnati. The schedule is released in April, and there will be no way to know if Palmer will be ready for the season opener at that time. I really don't think they want to have Pittsburgh hosting a team that has David Klingler or somebody at quarterback for the season opener. I'm guessing it will be Denver.
    You may be right about Denver. Looking at he the PIT home schedule, CIN and DEN are the only real attractive matchups :

    Baltimore
    Cincinnati
    Cleveland
    Denver
    Kansas City
    New Orleans
    Tampa Bay
    Miami

    They have some good road games with SD, ATL (for TV purposes), JAX and CAR, but the NFL will keep them at home.

    FWIW, I think Palmer is back for the opener.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  15. #74
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    I can't believe someone else actually remembers Dieter Brock!

    Rem

  16. #75
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    Re: Ouch! Bill Cower....

    I was 18 when he was here in LA with the Rams in 1985.

    Having an OL with about 3 All-Pro's .... and Eric Dickerson as RB really helped
    protect him.

    Back then..... i just looked at stats and thought he read as a pretty decent QB. But he was basically a Virgil Carter w/o the running speed.

    Rams fans could not stand him. He could not throw deep at all.

    IF CP cannot play for the first 3-4 games, and even if he does...it would behoove this team to draft another RB who has James Brooks-Lionel james type speed/talent...to help move the offense. Maybe in the 5th through 7th rounds.


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