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Thread: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

  1. #31
    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    I was thinking the Reds would be somewhere between #21 and #25. Ahead of the Mets, Nationals, Cardinals, Padres, and Yankees for sure.

    That's not optimism.
    I'm right there with you Doc Scott. I feel they are better than most of the teams listed above.. and its sad to say thats not really saying much.
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  3. #32
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve
    Time will tell. BA rewards their friends with rankings like these, in my opinion, and if there's one thing we know about this past Reds regime is that they made very few friends in the media.

    I happen to like the Reds system better than several teams above them, but that's just me.
    Wise words. However, bad marketing takes time to overcome and while the Organization does this, it puts the Reds at a disadvantage.

  4. #33
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
    I was thinking the Reds would be somewhere between #21 and #25. Ahead of the Mets, Nationals, Cardinals, Padres, and Yankees for sure.
    Oh I misunderstood you -- I thought you were surprised at how low the Yankees were. They've actually got a good bunch of hitters sprinkled all the down the system. Their lower levels, I think, are pretty good, better than what they have in Columbus, did very well last year in the rookie league and the New York-Penn league...but that's what, shortseason A Ball, so of course there's a long way to go there. but that probably stands them in good stead with these kinds of rankings.

    My impression that the Yankees' pitching prospects are a great concern, but then they are for the Reds too. The ranking strikes me as accurate -- again, right in the middle. They're average. Sadly, from what I know of it, I don't think the Reds' farm system is quite average yet.
    Last edited by vaticanplum; 02-08-2006 at 10:45 PM.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  5. #34
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal
    WOO HOO!

    In your FACE, Mets!
    REVENGE!!! For the one game playoff!!
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  6. #35
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    We're still overcoming the injury plagued era of Gruler, Howington, Aramboles... We've at least got some talent in the lower minors to add some hope. Guys like Ward, Stevens, and Lecure should be able to move quickly next year and raise our ranking at least to 28th.

  7. #36
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude
    We're still overcoming the injury plagued era of Gruler, Howington, Aramboles... We've at least got some talent in the lower minors to add some hope. Guys like Ward, Stevens, and Lecure should be able to move quickly next year and raise our ranking at least to 28th.
    Optimism is like gold. Hard to find and more valuable in theory.
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  8. #37
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    Im not looking at BA top 10 rankings.
    Of course you aren't. You're looking at your own list which begins with three A-Ballers and one Miguel Perez.

    Let's reflect on that for a moment...

    Three A-Ball players.

    One Miguel Perez.

    Just so the absurdity of that list sinks in...

    Three A-Ball players.

    One Miguel Perez.

    That puts an organization ahead of NO ONE. Why? Because every team has three promising A-Ball players and one no-hit Catcher in their system. Why? Because every team attends the amateur draft each season.

    BA was being generous ranking the Reds system above the Mets.

    Three A-Ball players.

    One Miguel Perez.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  9. #38
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Of course you aren't. You're looking at your own list which begins with three A-Ballers and one Miguel Perez.
    SteelSD, I really think you go out of your way to disagree with things I say.

    BA has the exact same three A ballers at the top of their list as well.
    As for Miguel Perez not hitting...he plays catcher. He doesnt need to hit to well to be a good catcher.

    As far as those three A-ballers putting them ahead of no one because every team holds a draft each year...well not every team had the best prospect in the Pioneer leauge, or have two of the top 5 prospects in the GCL...so I would say that puts the Reds with Bruce and Wood a little bit ahead of the others. As for Bailey, he needs work on some things for sure, but hardly anyone strikes out more batters than he does. He doesnt give up hits or home runs and he strikes out more than 10 batters per 9 innings. Bailey was the #2 prospect in his league, Bruce was #1 and #2 in the two leagues he played in and Wood was the #5 in the GCL and would have been around #5 or 6 in the Pioneer league had he pitched another inning and qualified for the list over at BA.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 02-09-2006 at 01:20 AM.

  10. #39
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    SteelSD, I really think you go out of your way to disagree with things I say.
    I wish I had to go out of my way to find something wrong with the things you post.

    BA has the exact same three A ballers at the top of their list as well.
    As for Miguel Perez not hitting...he plays catcher. He doesnt need to hit to well to be a good catcher.
    He has to hit better than he has in his three years in A-Ball. Otherwise, he's a Run Value liability. The guy is a complete afterthought on a team with something resembling even a mediocre farm system. I repeat- a COMPLETE afterthought. The fact that you think he's the fourth best prospect in the Reds system is a great example of just how bad that system is.

    As far as those three A-ballers putting them ahead of no one because every team holds a draft each year...well not every team had the best prospect in the Pioneer leauge, or have two of the top 5 prospects in the GCL...so I would say that puts the Reds with Bruce and Wood a little bit ahead of the others. As for Bailey, he needs work on some things for sure, but hardly anyone strikes out more batters than he does. He doesnt give up hits or home runs and he strikes out more than 10 batters per 9 innings. Bailey was the #2 prospect in his league, Bruce was #1 and #2 in the two leagues he played in and Wood was the #5 in the GCL and would have been around #5 or 6 in the Pioneer league had he pitched another inning and qualified for the list over at BA.
    Three A-Ball players.

    One Miguel Perez.

    When your team's top three prospects are a hard-throwing over-drafted project, a guy with fewer than 200 professional AB and another guy with fewer than 50 professional Innings your organization is teh suck- particularly when those three guys are followed by One Miguel Perez.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  11. #40
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    As far as those three A-ballers putting them ahead of no one because every team holds a draft each year...well not every team had the best prospect in the Pioneer leauge, or have two of the top 5 prospects in the GCL...so I would say that puts the Reds with Bruce and Wood a little bit ahead of the others. As for Bailey, he needs work on some things for sure, but hardly anyone strikes out more batters than he does. He doesnt give up hits or home runs and he strikes out more than 10 batters per 9 innings. Bailey was the #2 prospect in his league, Bruce was #1 and #2 in the two leagues he played in and Wood was the #5 in the GCL and would have been around #5 or 6 in the Pioneer league had he pitched another inning and qualified for the list over at BA.
    See, but here's where you msis the patented Big Picture: The "top 3" players in the Reds farm system were all acquired in the last 2 drafts. They've scarcely learned to lace their pants as professional athletes, and they're already the singular hope of the franchise.

    And, for that matter, you can cite performance statistics, but I argue that they're totally garbage at this point because players drafted as highly as them are SUPPOSED to blow their competition apart at the early levels. There was a large contingent of Travis Wood supporters around here this past summer that were excited by the numbers he was throwing in rookie ball, but he was merely doing what someone in his draft position should do: dominate players who are going to wash out of the game entirely or be career minor leaguers. Wood spent an entire summer throwing a good change against guys who can't adjust to speed variations. That's not impressive in the slightest -- wake me when they continue to produce at higher levels in the farm system against real competition. For now, they're nothing but speculation, and you can never sanely rate speculation ahead of other teams that have players developing forward and producing results in the higher minor leagues.

    Every team has players who dominate rookie ball and A-ball -- that's what high draft picks do. Those players move forward and it's what happens to them when they reach real competition against older, more experienced, and more talented players.

    Further, it is telling how far down in the minor leagues every one of these players are. The top two pitching prospects, Homer Bailey and Travis Wood, have hundreds and hundreds of minor league innings in front of them before either one will be even close to major league ready. That's thousands of pitches, any one of which could tear a ligment and turn them from the next big thing to the next Chris Gruler. How can you give a system anything other than a low ranking when the prospects are still at the bottom of the mountain, especially when other clubs have people of similar talent and calibur climbing closer to the summit?

    The Reds ranking is dead on, and it's the main reason why the team is in no danger of competing in the next few years.
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  12. #41
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    The Cardinals have crap in their system. I can't understand why everyone wants the guy to explain any further his opinion. He already did that before. It's not like it's so clear cut, the Cardinals system is junk right now.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  13. #42
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    Every team has players who dominate rookie ball and A-ball -- that's what high draft picks do. Those players move forward and it's what happens to them when they reach real competition against older, more experienced, and more talented players.
    Which is why a single Anthony Reyes represents geometrically more value than anyone at the top of the Reds prospect list.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  14. #43
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    The Cardinals have crap in their system. I can't understand why everyone wants the guy to explain any further his opinion. He already did that before. It's not like it's so clear cut, the Cardinals system is junk right now.
    That's desperation talking.

    The Cardinals have actual pitching prospects in the upper minors and about to graduate to the majors. If Rasmus is junk, then so is Bruce (btw, I'd argue that both are fine prospects).

    Tyler Greene, about whom I'm suspicious, would rate miles above every Reds middle IF prospect at the moment. Cody Haerter's a solid OF bat. Mark McCormick's got a better heater than Homer Bailey with a comparable curve. Heck, A.J. Van Slyke would easily make the Reds' list and he didn't crack the St. Louis top 10.

    The Cardinals system has taken a leap forward the past two years and it's blown past a Reds system built at the moment on the backs of two rookie ballers and a guy who had his struggles in Low A.
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  15. #44
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    SteelSD and Caveat Emprorer, you guys didnt seem to get the simple fact that I was answering the question of why I think the Reds have a better system than the Cardinals. I wasnt trying to convince anyone that Those three guys are the saving grace of this franchise. Just a simple arguement on my behalf to the idiotic comment of "every team has the same players because every teamhas a draft each year". Every team does have a draft each year, but every team didnt have guys that performed at the levels that Bruce and Wood, especially guys who we drafted in the first two rounds and played against "bad competition". If that were the case, which other second round picks had a 1.20 ERA? How many first round picks hit 9 home runs last season? Not every team had one, much less two guys like that.

  16. #45
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America ranks Reds farm system 29th out of 30 teams

    Colby Rasmus only hit 7 HR. Though he had a higher BA, OB and SLG than Bruce without ever dipping a toe into the GCL/AZL level. Nick Webber annhilated short-season ball with a 1.87 ERA and 0.91 WHIP.

    Ryan Braun hit 10 HR in his debut and Will Inman pitched every bit as well as Wood did in Pioneer League.

    So, there you go, first two teams I looked at had guys who debuted every bit as well as Bruce and Wood PLUS they've got lots of other stuff.

    That doesn't even get into the insanity of building your case for organizational strength around kids in rookie ball.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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