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Thread: Meanwhile in St. Louis

  1. #16
    This could be the year Phil in BG's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    The Cubs leaned on those fans for years and it worked.

    But the fact is the Reds fans, Cubs and Cardinal Fans all think they own or should own the Midwest



    But they got richer with cable, it was cable TV that fed the Cubs and made them bigger than the Reds and the Cardinals as far as revenue, it's what stole Indiana from the Reds and helped themn fight off the Cardinals south of the Loop.

    Look what cable did for Atlanta. I personally couldn't stand the team or the announcers, but the fan base became country wide. What are Brave fans doing in Toledo, Ohio? They're probably the same people who are Cowboy and Bulls fans for that matter....maybe it wasn't cable....just picking the winners of their era.

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  3. #17
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    .maybe it wasn't cable
    Nah... the 80's gave the cable teams a head start on the media flood of the information age.

    Ted Turner was the Marc Cuban of baseball.

  4. #18
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    Think the point the author started with is that the Cards do NOT have a big TV deal....I nelieve theya re still the darlings of KMOX and have basically the same cable situation that the Reds do.

    The difference is that Busch was bulit in 1968 WITH a Cards museum. It had statues and signs that made you KNOW it was the Cards stadium from the day it was built.

    Riverfront had virtually nothing built into its design to tell you that theReds played there.

    But the other two difference are, and I have no idea really which one led to the other (chicken or the egg?), one, the Cards are winners. They have always been dedicated to winning season after season. You never hear them referred to as "competitive."

    Two, they have the best fans in baseball. Their fans are nutty passionate about their team and their baseball AND their fans are all knowledgable fanatics. The term "casual fan" just doesn't exist in the Cardinal baseball world.

    Anyway, as far as size and distance and fan base, take Cincy and the Ohio river and turn it 90 degree couterclockwise and you HAVE St. Louis. The communites and the distances from downtown (and the stadium) are virtual copies of each other. From Creve Couer to Chesterfield to St. Charles, their suburbs are all almost identical the Blue Ash, Western Hills and Oakley.

    The Busch family amazes me that they have NEVER cried over the Yankee payroll. They have been spending 50% more than the Reds for years and years. I think their attendance reflects this.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  5. #19
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    The Busch family amazes me that they have NEVER cried over the Yankee payroll.
    They haven't owned the team in ten years. Bill DeWitt (Cincy Resident, former minority Reds owner and Stinger owner) is majority owner.

    Anyway, as far as size and distance and fan base, take Cincy and the Ohio river and turn it 90 degree couterclockwise and you HAVE St. Louis.
    But the one difference is that within a 5 hour drive of Cincinnati you'll hit more major cities with NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB teams. Drive any direction from St. Louis and you'll hit less major cities and fewer competing franchises. That matters when you're trying to wring most of your dollars out of attendance.

  6. #20
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    WOY, the current look and feel of the Cards, including the now departed Busch stadium was defined by the Busch family....this is what I meant. When Free Agency started, the Cards acted from day one as if they believed it would HELP them, not destroy them. I was referring to the building of the culture of the winners the Cards are and the culture of their fanatic fans....that happened under the Busches. I guess I should have made that clearer.

    If you really think the bulk of the Card 3 million a year fan base is built by those who drive 5 hours, you need to live in St. Loius like I did. Besides, Cincy has nothing like the draw of fan base like St. Louis has in Chicago (Cubs). A quite LARGE portion of the folks who live in St. Lou are actually Cub fans. So they don't bother to buy tickets for Braves/Cards games.

    And do you really think there are NHL fans who wring their hands over whether or not they should go to a Cards game OR a Blues game?

    The difference here, I believe, is that the Cards have always acted like and talked like a BIG market team, whereas the Reds have generally talked and acted like a whining small market team.

    The clearest metaphor I can think of is the difference between the LaBeau/soP Bengals and the Marvin Lewis Bengals.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  7. #21
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    Look what cable did for Atlanta. I personally couldn't stand the team or the announcers, but the fan base became country wide. What are Brave fans doing in Toledo, Ohio? They're probably the same people who are Cowboy and Bulls fans for that matter....maybe it wasn't cable....just picking the winners of their era.
    I'm sure cable is a contributor but there are displaced fans of local franchises all over the country; heck, all over the world.

    People are upward and mobile. They move all over, especially for their jobs.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  8. #22
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    I'm sure cable is a contributor but there are displaced fans of local franchises all over the country; heck, all over the world.

    People are upward and mobile. They move all over, especially for their jobs.
    And that's true but it's easier to be a fan of your team where ever you are at now thanks to cable and the internet. This board is proof positive of that. We have Reds fans from Oregon to Florida and all parts in between. If it weren't for cable and the internet, some of them may not have become Reds fans. And it works the other way too. Someone growing up in Cincinnati doesn't have to be a Reds fan anymore. They can turn on cable and watch a team who hasn't had 5 straight losing seasons. They can watch a team who has won 15 division championships in a row. They can watch the Yankees or the Dodgers. They can watch the Pirates and Angels. It's about choice and access.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  9. #23
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    I always felt that it would be advantageous for the region that covers southern Ohio, Kentucky, parts of Indiana, and WV, and with all the various sports teams of different ilks on both the professional and college level, to combine their forces and markets to create a subscription-supported super sports station.

    I don't understand why it has never been tried, or even looked into.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #24
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Meanwhile in St. Louis

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    I don't understand why it has never been tried, or even looked into.
    Too many egos, they wouldn't all want to share the pie with each other.
    Go Gators!


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