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Thread: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

  1. #61
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61
    I would rather have more guys that make contact.
    a vote for Casey and Womack.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    TR,
    Your statement that you are convinced that strikeouts mean nothing for a individual player, but high strikout totals for a team may be bad, really confuses me. Respectfully, I would have to question your thinking. If anything it would be the reverse. There is data to look at team strikeouts, and looking back at 50 years worth of data shows that there is no significant correlation of runs scored with strikeouts. This is measurable, unlike player performance. Player performance has to be estimated, but team performance is certainly measurable. So I really can't understand why you say that its ok to have a player that strikeouts, but a team with high strikeout totals, but still scores, could be a bad thing.
    Last edited by rdiersin; 02-13-2006 at 10:54 AM.

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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    They also played defense.
    not much of it.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredmachine1976
    I don't want to argue, but I'm still confussed. There has to be a point where more strike outs leads to less runs. I'm pretty sure that could be mathmatically proven.
    I'm sure that there is. But its not necessarily the strikeout, but the making of more outs that leads to less runs. This leads to bad isolated power, bad obp, etc.
    Last edited by rdiersin; 02-13-2006 at 10:55 AM.

  6. #65
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    not much of it.
    Yup. A collection of clods that can mash homers. Pardon me if I'm ready to watch something else.
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  7. #66
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    This stuff is beyond ridiculous and a large part of why I find myself visiting less and less.

    The subject of the thread was "Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30". The first page covered the interview. The resulting six pages - thus far - have reverted back to the Adam Dunn/strikeout argument.

    Can someone get this thing out of first gear? Please?


  8. #67
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Yup. A collection of clods that can mash homers. Pardon me if I'm ready to watch something else.
    the defensive killers for the team in 2005 were Lopez at SS(nobody wants to talk about that) and Jr in CF.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #68
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    They also played defense.
    I'm starting to feel that the poor defense card is being played a bit too much. Pitching and defense is such a symbotic relationship. I think at some point pitching can be bad enough that it will make an average defense look even worse. There aren't as many easy balls to field. So many of the balls put in play are done so with such authority as to either put them out of reach of the fielders, or at least put the fielders under higher pressure.

    If Krivsky addresses the defense as a major deficiency, given the condition of the offense he has inherited I believe we will be chasing our tails for years to come. The problem is historically significant bad pitching. Sure we should look for improvements in other areas, but the 80/20 rule would indicate the cost to improve those areas would far outway the marginal improvement seen from those changes. The problem is the pitching.

    Hatteberg and Perez should be insignificant acquisitions. They are all we have to go by at this stage though. Seeing the statement "too many strike outs" in conjunction with the acquisition of 2 horrible hitters that happen to not strike out all that often does nothing to ease my concerns that the wrong focus is being applied here.
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  10. #69
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by rdiersin
    TR,
    Your statement that you are convinced that strikeouts mean nothing for a individual player, but high strikout totals for a team may be bad, really confuses me. Respectfully, I would have to question your thinking. If anything it would be the reverse. There is data to look at team strikeouts, and looking back at 50 years worth of data shows that there is no significant correlation of runs scored with strikeouts. This is measurable, unlike player performance. Player performance has to be estimated, but team performance is certainly measurable. So I really can't understand why you say that its ok to have a player that strikeouts, but a team with high strikeout totals, but still scores, could be a bad thing.
    Looking for more rounded players that can play consistent baseball on offense, including do more than play station to station three run homer ball, and defense. I'll gladly give up some of those runs that led the league if it comes in conjunction with taking strides toward the other team scoring less, much less.

    As for what you don't understand, it is simply the difference between having one or two high strikeout type hitters vs. 5-6 in the lineup on a daily basis.
    Last edited by traderumor; 02-13-2006 at 11:01 AM.
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  11. #70
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds
    The resulting six pages - thus far - have reverted back to the Adam Dunn/strikeout argument.
    What the argument is about is not Dunn specifically, but rather if the Reds could be improved offensively by striking out less.

    I would say it will have more to do with giving an everyday job to WMP. WMP is a high K(higher than Dunn), low OBP, high SLG% guy who is seemingly a defensive black hole no matter where he plays(although his "best" position seems to be CF).

    Might this team do better to trade WMP, move Jr to left(where lack of speed is not nearly as important) and find a real CF?
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #71
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    It would be the point when OBP and SLG% start to decrease. That should tell you all you need to know.
    Wouldn't they both decrease the first time a guy strikes out?
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    Pitching and defense is such a symbotic relationship. I think at some point pitching can be bad enough that it will make an average defense look even worse.
    and the converse is true, really poor defense can make the pitching look even worse.

    An easy way to help the pitching without getting new pitchers to to shore up the defense. The problems areas would seem to be up the middle(2b(maybe),ss,cf) which are by far the most important defensive positions.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #73
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Has anybody on the board honestly looked not just at our runs scored total but the run distribution? A team with a lot of strikeouts and a lot of power will surely score a lot of runs over the course of the season. However, my guess is that we have a greater standard deviation than do most squads. The advantage of "smart/small ball" is that when you need to score just one run in a specific instance, it's frequently the best way to do it.

    If you have a roster than is unable to manufacture that 1 run at the appropriate time then you are hurting yourself. Of course, if they ability to do that comes at the expense of the power/obp types generally speaking, then you're losing ground. Let's just hope they understand this means it's good to have a Dave Roberts ready to pinch run, rather than have a Tony Womack start everyday.

    Steel, do you happen to have any links to articles which speak specifically to pythag. of teams with extreme tendencies? (ie. high K teams consistently under (or over) performing their pythag.) When you start to look at things in the aggregate you can often hide meaningful variation at the tails of the distribution by incorrectly assuming it's simply random chance variation.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 02-13-2006 at 11:08 AM.

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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Looking for more rounded players that can play consistent baseball on offense, including do more than play station to station three run homer ball, and defense. I'll gladly give up some of those runs that led the league if it comes in conjunction with taking strides toward the other team scoring less, much less.

    As for what you don't understand, it is simply the difference between having one or two high strikeout type hitters vs. 5-6 in the lineup on a daily basis.
    Mike Cameron was a strikeout type guy, but played good defense. As for consistent offense, that's another thing. I think there was article in BP last year talking about the White Sox and "consistent" offenses. I will try and find it, you may find it interesting.

  16. #75
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    Re: Krivsky will be on XM at 8:30

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredmachine1976
    Wouldn't they both decrease the first time a guy strikes out?
    Do you think there may be a tradeoff between swinging hard(and sometimes missing) and extra base hits?

    Is there a point where swinging hard brings diminishing returns? (BTW, this is the real question that you want answered).
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand


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