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Thread: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

  1. #61
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Zito would be worthless to the Reds. One amd done on a team that needs a lot more pitching than just him.
    No more or less useless than Encarnacion and Kearns--I agree, either way, contending is a long shot, but we know just how long of a long shot it is with Kearns and Encarnacion. We don't know how long it is with Zito. Something tells me it's a lot, lot closer with Zito minus Kearns and Encarnacion.

    Look, I'd be making the same kinds of suggestions for pitching acquisitions even if the Reds had no surplus of offense. But they do have a surplus, which only doubles my confidence in a move like this, if there's any reality to it, and by "it," I mean a deal involving a Zito caliber pitcher.

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  3. #62
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    For all of you saying Zito would be worthless:

    If it is Zito we would be getting, I am sure we wouldn't pull the trigger on the deal until we got him to agree to an extension. I don't see it being Zito though, because we don't have the money for him. A deal for some like that that would have to include Dunn, Junior, or Eric P. Milton.

    Ervin Santan and the Angels seem like the most compatable team to deal with.

  4. #63
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    . There is no way you can be successful when two players are getting that much of the payroll.
    Yes there is and one way isn't trading away starting 3rd baseman and Rf's who make 2.2 Million together.

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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    People can say what they want about me banging my drum about trading Adam Dunn but trading Adam Dunn would bring us a return that the Indians got when they traded Bartolo Colon to Montreal.

    And one more thing.....if it will be three to five years before the Reds are contenders again, don't you think Junior might be more receptive finishing his career playing for a contender that could possibly go to the World Series. What's a Hall of Fame career if you didn't even go to one World Series? Junior would be the next Ernie Banks.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  6. #65
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    People can say what they want about me banging my drum about trading Adam Dunn but trading Adam Dunn would bring us a return that the Indians got when they traded Bartolo Colon to Montreal.
    I agree. If you want this team to show drastic improvement quickly, Dunn needs to be traded. Otherwise you are going to have to trade something like a promising Kearns, and 2 of your top 3 prospects.

  7. #66
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    People can say what they want about me banging my drum about trading Adam Dunn but trading Adam Dunn would bring us a return that the Indians got when they traded Bartolo Colon to Montreal.
    No it wouldn't.

    This era has made pitching a premium and the fact that MLB let the Expos cannibalize their system in hopes of generating the owners some more money out of their red handed step child only proves that.

    A. Pitching is really scarce

    B. Minaya screwed the Expos and now he can beat up on them as well

  8. #67
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    Here's the problem......Dunn and Griffey's salaries makes up one third of the payroll. There is no way you can be successful when two players are getting that much of the payroll.
    Sure you can. It is all about value, not about how much. If the Reds have expensive guys who don't produce they are in a hole they can't likely climb out of. When you have expensive guys they just have to be offset by inexpensive guys who also give a lot of production. That's exactly how the A's won paying a lot of money to guys like Tejada, Giambi, Damon, Dye, etc while enjoying the inexpensive years of Mulder, Hudson and Zito.

    There is no formula for salary construction of a roster to ensure success, it is simply to put together a roster(in total) that is productive in terms of the amount of money spent.

    BP posted a column on the Dunn article and what a good deal it is likely to be for the Reds because even though they will pay him 31M over three years his PECOTA forecasts 38M in earned value. Contrast that to the Konerko deal where he will be paid 60M with earned value of 19M leaving a 41M dollar deficit. The Reds need to focus on those positive earned value contracts and stay away from the huge negative ones(like Milton and Jr).
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    I agree. If you want this team to show drastic improvement quickly, Dunn needs to be traded. Otherwise you are going to have to trade a promising Kearns, and 2 of your top 3 prospects.
    As the Sporting News Ken Rosenthal wrote in his past column, trading Adam Dunn would have fans hating Krivsky for doing it. But it might end up being the best thing for the franchise and rebuilding this team and gaining payroll flexiblity.

    Signing Dunn to a two-year deal makes it more sweet for other teams to be interested in him.
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    As the Sporting News Ken Rosenthal wrote in his past column, trading Adam Dunn would have fans hating Krivsky for doing it. But it might end up being the best thing for the franchise and rebuilding this team and gaining payroll flexiblity.

    Signing Dunn to a two-year deal makes it more sweet for other teams to be interested in him.
    If we started to win, fans would get over trading him in a heartbeat.

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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Sure you can. It is all about value, not about how much. If the Reds have expensive guys who don't produce they are in a hole they can't likely climb out of. When you have expensive guys they just have to be offset by inexpensive guys who also give a lot of production. That's exactly how the A's won paying a lot of money to guys like Tejada, Giambi, Damon, Dye, etc while enjoying the inexpensive years of Mulder, Hudson and Zito.

    There is no formula for salary construction of a roster to ensure success, it is simply to put together a roster(in total) that is productive in terms of the amount of money spent.

    BP posted a column on the Dunn article and what a good deal it is likely to be for the Reds because even though they will pay him 31M over three years his PECOTA forecasts 38M in earned value. Contrast that to the Konerko deal where he will be paid 60M with earned value of 19M leaving a 41M dollar deficit. The Reds need to focus on those positive earned value contracts and stay away from the huge negative ones(like Milton and Jr).
    Like I said, two players's salaries that consists of one third of the payroll won't make this team contenders. When Larkin and Junior were on the Reds, the team had no payroll room to pay for starting pitching. Maybe the payroll will be bumped up to 65 million but with arbitration eligible players like Lopez, Kearns and Pena getting increases each year, there is no room to bring in competent pitching. That is more reason why you need to move the likes of Dunn and Griffey for cheaper talent.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  12. #71
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    As the Sporting News Ken Rosenthal wrote in his past column, trading Adam Dunn would have fans hating Krivsky for doing it. But it might end up being the best thing for the franchise and rebuilding this team and gaining payroll flexiblity.
    this team doesn't need increased payroll flexibility at the moment. This offseason there was nothing to spend it on.

    They need to build. It is am simple as that. If the FO agrees the best way to build is to trade Dunn, then go for it. But the payroll flexibility crap is red herring. The Reds have little to spend it on internally and nothing to spend it on externally.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44
    If we started to win, fans would get over trading him in a heartbeat.
    If we started to win.

    Based on the past five years, do you see anything that would change that? What good is having Griffey and Dunn on this team if they continue to lose?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    If we started to win.

    Based on the past five years, do you see anything that would change that? What good is having Griffey and Dunn on this team if they continue to lose?
    You are making my point for me.

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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    Like I said, two players's salaries that consists of one third of the payroll won't make this team contenders.
    88-74 - 58 Million dollar payroll

    Jason Kendall $ 10,571,429
    Eric Chavez $ 8,500,000


    $ 19,071,429 33% of the total payroll.

  16. #75
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    Re: RUMOR - RUMOR: Kearns' possible destination

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty
    Like I said, two players's salaries that consists of one third of the payroll won't make this team contenders.
    Nor will having a roster comprised of paying everyone 2.5M dollars. It is all about production and talent not the salary composition of your roster.

    The Reds don't have enough talent on their roster to win(at least without a huge dose of luck and career years).

    The previous regime had a chance to do what the Marlins did this offseason and tear down the roster while acquiring a bunch of young pitching(hoping 2-3 pan out). They chose not to and chose to buy high and sell low and we see how that has worked out.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand


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