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Thread: Freel as "utility" man

  1. #16
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick
    But substituting Womack for him, who's not much of a defensive upgrade and a major offensive downgrade just doesn't make any sense at all.
    I'm curious, of the three candidates for 2B (Woe-mack, Aurilia, Freel), which is the best defender? I know none of them play defense particularly well but who's the best of the bunch defensively? Does Freel's range make him the best or does Aurilia's "steadiness" put him at the top of the list?

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  3. #17
    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Is it not also possible that Freel's defense will improve with more reps at one position? After all, practice makes perfect...or so I've heard.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

  4. #18
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    I love having Freel in the lineup, but unfortunately the only downside is that he is subject to injury just because of how hard he plays. He can't play every day, or he's going to kill himself (or little old ladies in the front row).

    I expect a lot of playing time though, maybe not a lot of consecutive days, but it will be in different positions so other guys can get rest.
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 02-21-2006 at 03:40 PM.

  5. #19
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw
    I love having Freel in the lineup, but unfortunately the only downside is that he is subject to injury just because of how hard he plays. He can't play every day, or he's going to kill himself (or little old ladies in the front row).

    I expect a lot of playing time though, maybe not a lot of consecutive days, but it will be in different positions so other guys can get rest.
    I think the problem has been he isn't used to playing everyday, not how hard he plays. If given the chance to play everyday means the Reds risk losing him to the DL at some point, well then they lose him to the DL. And if his OBP is .380 at the time, I'll likley yell some profanities. But I want that .380 in there every day, 4 AB's a day.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  6. #20
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw
    I love having Freel in the lineup, but unfortunately the only downside is that he is subject to injury just because of how hard he plays. He can't play every day, or he's going to kill himself (or little old ladies in the front row).

    I expect a lot of playing time though, maybe not a lot of consecutive days, but it will be in different positions so other guys can get rest.
    Matt, I guess you point out the problem and the reason I started this thread. I know Freel gets injured and you probably can only count on 350-400 at bats, depending on the particular season. But how does he get that much playing time if he has no position?

    I don't mind him switching positions when there is a need, but I contend that it is insufficient for Freel to play "once in a while" when someone needs a rest or is hurt. The Reds are a better team when Freel in in the lineup, and he has to be there most days.

    Which raises the question whether the Reds would be better off -- even offensively -- trading an outfielder. Opening an outfield slot for Freel would reduce the team's power but might create a more balanced lineup, with more speed and a better OBP. Not advocating this, but it is a thought, particularly if pitching would come in the trade.

  7. #21
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61
    I don't mind him switching positions when there is a need, but I contend that it is insufficient for Freel to play "once in a while" when someone needs a rest or is hurt. The Reds are a better team when Freel in in the lineup, and he has to be there most days.
    You're absolutely right. Freel's good enough to play every day. He happens to be versatile too. The problem folks run into when they assume he'll just fill in at random positions during the season is that it's a prescription for not playing him enough.

    What his versatility should mean is that he fills in as the regular wherever you've got your biggest hole. That's 2B this year. That would be taking advantage of the guy's versatility rather than burying him for it.
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  8. #22
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw
    I love having Freel in the lineup, but unfortunately the only downside is that he is subject to injury just because of how hard he plays. He can't play every day, or he's going to kill himself (or little old ladies in the front row).
    The reason he can't play everyday is because his body is fragile not because he plays hard. There are plenty of players that play as hard as Freel does and can play everyday most notable in Reds history is Rose.

    On this team he should be playing 2nd base everyday, but he is not that good defensively there. As for playing the OF he is average at best with a weak arm. But lacks the slugging that I want from an outfielder.

    He is a two skill player: high OBP (which is a very valuable skill) and speed.

  9. #23
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    2 things we lack.

    Play him as much as possible, if he breaks..then we put someone else in.
    Go Gators!

  10. #24
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by 4256 Hits
    The reason he can't play everyday is because his body is fragile not because he plays hard. There are plenty of players that play as hard as Freel does and can play everyday most notable in Reds history is Rose.

    On this team he should be playing 2nd base everyday, but he is not that good defensively there. As for playing the OF he is average at best with a weak arm. But lacks the slugging that I want from an outfielder.

    He is a two skill player: high OBP (which is a very valuable skill) and speed.
    Not sure that it's a fragile body as much as it is that Freel has to exert more energy than your average player in order to play at a high level. I'd say that he has to exert more energy than even a high-energy guy like Pete Rose who, while constantly focused, could turn it on and off when he needed to.

    He's got to be high energy, high exertion all the time. Rose was the baseball version of a pit bull. High energy exerted when needed. Freel is a rat terrier. High energy exerted all the time.

    Rose growled and struck when he saw an intruder. Freel yips and is constantly darting around the house. That's the difference.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  11. #25
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    There is no other way around FACT.

    Fact is Freel is the best choice to hit lead off of all the players on the current roster.

    I'll take his obp and 2b defense over Womack or Aurillia any day.

    At the end of the day none of the three will ever win a Gold Glove.

    Ryan Freel will score more runs than Aurilia or Womack.
    I could live with that.

    Unlike most fans I'd rather take my chances with William Bergolia than Tony or Ritchie. Untill than start Ryan Freel.

  12. #26
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Not sure that it's a fragile body as much as it is that Freel has to exert more energy than your average player in order to play at a high level. I'd say that he has to exert more energy than even a high-energy guy like Pete Rose who, while constantly focused, could turn it on and off when he needed to.

    He's got to be high energy, high exertion all the time. Rose was the baseball version of a pit bull. High energy exerted when needed. Freel is a rat terrier. High energy exerted all the time.

    Rose growled and struck when he saw an intruder. Freel yips and is constantly darting around the house. That's the difference.
    so.. Freel needs to be neutered?
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #27
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Freel as "utility" man

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    2 things we lack.

    Play him as much as possible, if he breaks..then we put someone else in.
    I agree 100%. I don't want to hear this party line bullcrap about him being so fragile and versatile that you can't play him every day. I get the fragile thing. Eric Davis was about as fragile as they came and they didn't sit him on the bench cause he might get hurt. As for the versatility factor, if he's in the game already, there's no earthly reason he can't switch from 2nd to another position whether it be LF, CF or 3B.
    Last edited by Chip R; 02-22-2006 at 09:23 AM.
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