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Thread: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Article in today's Post about Dave Williams. Two paragraphs jumped out at me:

    "I don't have that overpowering type of fastball or anything," he admitted. "By no means am I going to dazzle you or anything like that, but hopefully I can show these guys I can keep them in games, and with the offense they have here, I can kind of hold my own fate in my hands."

    Doesn't he sound like the type of pitcher that needs to sit down and have a long, long talk with Tom Browning? I'd say the same thing for Eric Milton, even though he's not a lefty. I think Browning can teach these guys how to pitch smart.

    The mention of the Reds' prolific offense isn't a cop-out on Williams' part; he'd just like a little more help when he's on the mound.

    While the Reds led the National League with 820 runs last season, only two teams in baseball scored fewer runs that the Pirates' 680. Spread out over 25 starts, that extra offense is going to make a difference in wins and losses, and Williams hopes to tilt the balance in the other direction this year.


    That's a 140 run difference between the Pirates and us and we just finished ahead of them. That's less than a run a game. I just checked the stats for last year - we gave up 889 runs - again, dropping a run a game and we're looking at a whole different ballgame. Pitching smart, playing smart, and this team can take care of itself. I know that's a tall order, but I would like to hope they're up to the challenge.

    joe

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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    I'd say the same thing for Eric Milton, even though he's not a lefty. I think Browning can teach these guys how to pitch smart.


    Milton's not Lefty???

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Willy
    I'd say the same thing for Eric Milton, even though he's not a lefty. I think Browning can teach these guys how to pitch smart.


    Milton's not Lefty???
    I'm sorry, my mistake - clearly I think Browning can help these guys learn how to pitch smarter.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    we gave up 889 runs
    The Reds, god love em not me gave up all those runs.

    This is the top ten WORST Reds teams in runs allowed vs the league, only the pre and post BRM teams improved and the first wave was helped by expansion and a healthy farm system and the second by a healthy farm system, both were a result of Bob Howsam though, and as time goes on that reign looks more like an anomaly than a norm.

    The rest of those teams took awhile to revover, except for the Bowden created monster that O'Brien played Seymour to in the Reds pitching version of Little Shop of Horrors.

    This is how bad the Reds pitching is, 4 out of the last 5 years rank as 4 of the worst Reds pitching staffs in modern history. Getting out of that at a run less a game would be a historic event.

    Code:
    RUNS                          YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
    1    Reds                     2005     -161      889      728   
    2    Reds                     1901     -160      818      658   
    3    Reds                     2004     -155      907      752   
    4    Reds                     2003     -140      886      746   
    5    Reds                     1968     -107      673      566   
    6    Reds                     1957     -106      781      675   
    7    Reds                     1969     -103      768      665   
    8    Reds                     1934      -91      801      710   
    9    Reds                     2001      -88      850      762   
    10   Reds                     1984      -85      747      662
    Last edited by westofyou; 02-22-2006 at 11:11 AM.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    [QUOTE]This is how bad the Reds pitching is, 4 out of the last 5 years rank as 4 of the worst Reds pitching staffs in modern history. Getting out of that at a run less a game would be a historic event.[QUOTE]

    Of course, the truth is, that's a huge jump for any team. My statement, as wishful as it was, is more the hope that some small improvement, playing the smart ball Jerry Narron is professing, will hopefully help a team with an offense full of potential (and clearly capable of scoring runs). (Did I throw enough caveats in there to extract myself from my earlier faux pas and hyperbole?

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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    Of course, the truth is, that's a huge jump for any team. My statement, as wishful as it was, is more the hope that some small improvement, playing the smart ball Jerry Narron is professing, will hopefully help a team with an offense full of potential (and clearly capable of scoring runs). (Did I throw enough caveats in there to extract myself from my earlier faux pas and hyperbole?
    I don't want to harsh your buzz and sound like the voice of doom and gloom but the majority of these guys could pitch as smart as Greg Maddux and they aren't going to do well. Look how many times the pitching staff let the opposition score 6, 7, 8 and more runs a game. Then look how many times they allowed less than 4 runs a game. The Reds need to start winning more games 8-2 rather than 10-8.
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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Playing the "smart ball" Narron seems to be professing (i.e. small ball) doesn't fit the Reds lineup. Indeed, any play that involves playing for one run at a time is going to bite this team, because the pitching staff is going to be giving up runs in bunches. "Smart ball" would be playing according to the strengths of your ballclub rather than trying to squish your team into a particular mold.

    As for the pitching staff, well, no amound of smart pitching can offset the fact that 3 of the projected starters would have a hard time cracking the rotation of your average Independent League team. Sorry to sound like a pessimist, but it seems like the best we can hope for is that they get incredibly hit-lucky in terms of BABIP.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Playing the "smart ball" Narron seems to be professing (i.e. small ball) doesn't fit the Reds lineup. Indeed, any play that involves playing for one run at a time is going to bite this team, because the pitching staff is going to be giving up runs in bunches. "Smart ball" would be playing according to the strengths of your ballclub rather than trying to squish your team into a particular mold.
    I'm not sure I agree that "smart ball" is the same thing as "small ball". I think they're entirely different. Certainly there are situations where small ball is called for from some of your team - moving runners over, manufacturing runs, etc. Smart ball, in my mind, is partly that, but it's also knowing where to hit a ball in a given situation, how you run the basepaths, where to position yourself in the field and who to throw to. It's what pitch do you throw when and to which hitter and knowing that your fielders know what to anticipate and all those things that make baseball so much for complicated that many people know. I think that's what Narrons talking about.

    Can the rates make that vast an improvement? It will certainly be tough. Frankly, I think we are in the toughest division in baseball - top to bottom. And that includes Pittsburgh and Milwaukee. This will not be an easy division to win and it won't be an easy division to find the wild card. The pessimism is clearly understandable. I'd like to believe a new day is dawning. Certainly, if not this year (and that's very unlikely), it may not be far off.

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    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Smallball, smartball...

    ...when the manager of a team that will hit 200 homeruns obsesses about team speed, I get nervous.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    I don't have a problem with certain players in the lineup being able to play smart, execute, whatever you want to call it. There are situations in a lot of games that you need to be able to score "a single run." I don't hear anyone saying that the Griffey's, Dunn's, Kearn's or Pena's of the world should start playing "small ball."

    I don't have a problem with guys like Freel, Lopez, Aurillia, Womack, Denorfia, and even Jason Larue being able to execute so that the big guys have a guy in scoring position to drive in a particular situation. (the pitching staff being able to sacrifice bunt would be a "huge" help) I don't hear anybody saying the Reds are going to operate in small ball mode all the time. Has anyone heard that? I certainly haven't. Nothing but wild speculation. I find it hard to believe that Jerry Narron or anyone else for that matter, is going to try and turn an offense packed with sluggers, into a singles hitting, one run at a time offense. It's just plain ridiculous to think that is what is going on. There is nothing wrong with Major League Baseball players being able to execute to score a run when it is necessary to be in that mode. Matter of fact, it should be that way.
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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland
    Smallball, smartball...

    ...when the manager of a team that will hit 200 homeruns obsesses about team speed, I get nervous.
    572 EBH last year, 5th most in NL history.

    Last year the pitching staff allowed the 31st most runs in modern NL history, the year before 19th, the year before that 35th.

    If "smartball" is code for quality pitching then I'm all for it.

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    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Sorry to sound like a pessimist, but it seems like the best we can hope for is that they get incredibly hit-lucky in terms of BABIP.
    And just as our pitching staff isn't designed for high strikeouts, neither is our defense designed for low BABIP.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    Article in today's Post about Dave Williams. Two paragraphs jumped out at me:

    "I don't have that overpowering type of fastball or anything," he admitted. "By no means am I going to dazzle you or anything like that, but hopefully I can show these guys I can keep them in games, and with the offense they have here, I can kind of hold my own fate in my hands."
    Translation: "I'm scrappy"

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    I'm not sure I agree that "smart ball" is the same thing as "small ball". I think they're entirely different.
    I think they're entirely different, too. But Narron strikes me as an old-school "baseball man" who thinks stealing bases and sacrificing outs to move a runner is the right way to play the game. He's in love with veterans who he thinks can do "the little things". The fact that he's considering Womack and Aurilia over Freel and Encarnacion tells me he's not really interested in anything but his own vision of "smart ball."
    Last edited by Johnny Footstool; 02-22-2006 at 12:23 PM.
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    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Post's Story on Dave Williams - a couple of thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Playing the "smart ball" Narron seems to be professing (i.e. small ball) doesn't fit the Reds lineup. Indeed, any play that involves playing for one run at a time is going to bite this team, because the pitching staff is going to be giving up runs in bunches. "Smart ball" would be playing according to the strengths of your ballclub rather than trying to squish your team into a particular mold.
    Couldn't agree with this more. There's nothing smart about what Narron has shown us so far. If he wants to add speed to the lineup, I can live with that. Just don't do it in a way that will hurt the team. Freel and EdE are speedy and they get on base. What a novel concept. Too bad Narron has indicated a preference for guys with baseball agoraphobia (the fear of leaving home for say......first base) like Womack and Aurilia. You know, the "professional at bat" type. I just can't wait to read the daily "trade Dunn NOW" threads when his RBI totals are down. Of course, some will conveniently ignore the fact that the "baseball guys" in front of him can't get on base.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?


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