im already starting to dislike williams oh that's right i dislked him when he was with the pirates with those dumb sideburns since im forced to wach the pirates since i live in the pittsburgh area yet i still live in ohio u think i'd get fox sports ohio no comcast sticks me with fox sporst pittsburgh
Didn't Williams pitch well in his 2nd outing. Everyone seems quick to throw this guy on the trash heep. Seems to me this deal is also about getting Wily Mo and Dunn at the same time. Even if Williams is a bust if Wily Mo rocks then it was still a good deal, but Williams being decent would put the icing on the cake. It's still early guys! Right now our problems are more then Williams though.
Then the Reds traded a career .305 hitter for a bust.Originally Posted by Reds1
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Consider Dunn gets his normal 40 HRs to take Caseys spot and then Wily Mo puts up 40 HRs to match Dunn. Consider Casey hit .305, but still didn't get the production as far as RBIs and was a rally killer with his speed. As we all know BA does not tell the total picture of a hitter. It basically becomes a salary dump and in all reality improves the team getting the younger guys in there playing.
Williams is also not a bust at this point and I don't believe he will be. No he won't be an ace, but unfortunately he is an upgrade to a pitching staff that could be starting some scrap heap if we don't get healthy fast.
I'll take my neg rep points here.
As long as Jerry Narron writes the names of solid vets that "do the little things" at the top of the line up and contenues to play'em at middle infield we're in trouble.
Not only will Womack and Aurillia hurt this club on defense, they will make outs at the top of the order, causing the loss of ABs for more productive hitters.
Sorry.. thats the way I see it.
Can they pitch?
Because the point of the trade should have been to trade a bat for a good arm.
I've heard that argument ad infinitum in recent years. Ramon Ortiz was supposed to be an upgrade too. What the Reds did was replace Ortiz with a pitcher every bit as bad as Ortiz (though far less durable ... which ultimately might be a good thing).
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Time to pass out the Heathies! This year's award winning award show where you, the loyal redszone.com readers and posters, are rewarded for your efforts on posting during a meaningless spring training game! Time's a wastin' - let's roll!
The first award for the "Old Style Harry Carey Fastest Play-By-Play Poster" is given to membengal! His diligence is worth noting, even on 10-3 blowout! Tip an Old Style with Harry! Congrats!
The award for the "Pepsi Scoreboard Stumper" goes to Flyer85 for his question that Twins announcers asked about the three worst Reds defenders! Thanks for the trivia question Flyer - and hey, I'm pulling for ya!
The award for "Best Insider Tip" goes to CoffeyBro who spoke to his brother's wife hoping he would pitch the 9th. Either way you look at, whether Narron's saving him for a game or doesn't trust him yet, Coffeybro's our inside man!
The "WOY Best Use Of A History Lesson" goes to Sea Ray with his Woody Fryman reference to Dave Williams. Extra Credit to both being lefthanded!
And Finally - The "Flagrant Thumb Your Nose At The Board" goes to Ron Madden's eloquent discussion of the flatulence that is Tony Womack! Ron, if you got negged, here's hopin this helps!
Thanks for coming this evening everyone!
Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.
No one wanted to trade for Casey and overpay him! Hindsight is 20-20 on Ramon. Its also frustrating when people knew that this guy was going to suck or this guy was going to be good. Williams will surprise and will be an upgrade and is an arm! There didn't seem to be much out there and remember we didn't have any money. We needed the money to keep who we had. Like it or not that's what is happening.
Fine, then trade someone else. I still see no pitching.
Speak for yourself, I spotted the stink on him well before the Reds dealt for him.
What's frustrating about people being able to spot those things? What I find frustrating is that the Reds can't figure out what a good percentage of this board spotted without any trouble. It's not that hard to do.
Well now that you've used an exclamation mark it must be true. Forget about him being easy to hit with longball issues.
Why I bet the Bullwinkle's going to pull a rabbit out his hat too.
That's just flat out wrong. The money saved by knocking Graves, Ortiz, Jiminez, Randa and Weber off the payroll more than covered the raises handed out to all of the team's arbitration-eligible players with a few million to spare. The idea that Casey's contract had to be cut to keep younger player may be the most often-repeated falacy swirling around the Reds this winter.
Last edited by M2; 03-14-2006 at 10:37 PM.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
You nailed it. A few million to spare. Wow!!!!!!!!!! In todays game a few million is enough to add pitching. 3 million can get a 1/3 of an Eric Milton these days. I think eventually this trade will give us the flexiblity to add someone, but there just isn't much out there now. We need to get younger and we needed to see if Wily Mo is the guy. I guess the Reds new FO knows nothing about baseball. The new owner blessed the trade and he knows more about baseball then you or I. There must be something to this. Just my 2 cents!
And the quality pitching they added is exactly who? I'm all for cutting payroll to add needed pitching. Casey wasn't that big a cut and the pitching wasn't added.
Better to have spent $0 on 0/3 of an Eric Milton. Meanwhile the best pitchers in the Reds rotation didn't cost much when the team found them.
Yeah, it's always the next deal. Couldn't possibly add pitching during the winter. Meanwhile the Milwaukee Brewers traded Lyle Overbay, who is no better than Sean Casey, for two arms and an OF.
The team needs to not be one of the worst pitching clubs ever. That's what it needs.
The one run by Dan O'Brien sure as shooting didn't.
I don't know what Bob Castellini knows about baseball. If he thinks Dave Williams is a good pitcher, then he's got a lot to learn.
Though if you're confident he knows more about baseball than you, I'll take your word for it.
Something to what? That doesn't even make sense.
Last edited by M2; 03-14-2006 at 10:38 PM.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Trading Casey for Williams before last season would have been a salary dump. Trading him this offseason for Williams was Dan O'Brien pulling across the finish line at Daytona, thinking he had won, while he was still 2 laps down.
4009
The Baseball Prospectus annual pointed out the exact thing that many of us have said from the minute the Casey-Williams deal was made: that O'Brien should have dumped Casey after his excellent 2004 but was either too chicken or just not too sharp.
I had no intention of "Thumbing My Nose At The Board".Time to pass out the Heathies! This year's award winning award show where you, the loyal redszone.com readers and posters, are rewarded for your efforts on posting during a meaningless spring training game! Time's a wastin' - let's roll!
The first award for the "Old Style Harry Carey Fastest Play-By-Play Poster" is given to membengal! His diligence is worth noting, even on 10-3 blowout! Tip an Old Style with Harry! Congrats!
The award for the "Pepsi Scoreboard Stumper" goes to Flyer85 for his question that Twins announcers asked about the three worst Reds defenders! Thanks for the trivia question Flyer - and hey, I'm pulling for ya!
The award for "Best Insider Tip" goes to CoffeyBro who spoke to his brother's wife hoping he would pitch the 9th. Either way you look at, whether Narron's saving him for a game or doesn't trust him yet, Coffeybro's our inside man!
The "WOY Best Use Of A History Lesson" goes to Sea Ray with his Woody Fryman reference to Dave Williams. Extra Credit to both being lefthanded!
And Finally - The "Flagrant Thumb Your Nose At The Board" goes to Ron Madden's eloquent discussion of the flatulence that is Tony Womack! Ron, if you got negged, here's hopin this helps!
Thanks for coming this evening everyone!
Sorry if anyone took that way.
I only tried to post an honest opinion. I know there are many fans that may disagree with my oppinion and that is all well and good.
There are also some fans that agree it's foolish to depend on old guys with very little range to play middle infield positions.
The mistake is compounded when these old vets are penciled into the top of the line up getting more ABs than more productive hitters.
Thats what I believe. I can't help it. Maybe you can post something to change my mind, I'll listen.
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