Maybe sooner than we think, but hopefully not sooner than he should be; if he's really good, it would be nice to have him around for awhile. If he's brought up too soon, he won't be.
Maybe sooner than we think, but hopefully not sooner than he should be; if he's really good, it would be nice to have him around for awhile. If he's brought up too soon, he won't be.
"Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn
Ah yes, the objective evidence says that Homer is a suspect more than a prospect, so now we go to the subjective "has stuff" and "have you seen him pitch." Luke Hudson supposedly had "stuff" too. He just didn't know where his "stuff" was going. And I saw him pitch.Originally Posted by dougdirt
See, that's the beauty of baseball--you don't need to have some special "eye" for talent to look at a minor league pitcher's numbers and make an initial evaluation of his performance. Right now, Homer has very little value either to the Reds or a potential trade partner because there is nothing other than the subjective "stuff" in his favor right now.
And here's the real challenge for you. Apparently, you have seen him pitch and I admittedly have not. Yet, just looking at his performance, I can tell you that he does not command of his pitches, which you acknowledge control is his achilles heel right now. So was I just a really good guesser?
As for the high K rate, I think I acknowledged in more than one post in this thread that is the one thing he has going for him. But a high K rate alone is not enough. Even A ball hitters showed that. Way too wild and way too hittable to be our stud in training.
But, hey, if someone buys into the hype machine that Narron and others have going full force, maybe we can get something useful in a trade. Otherwise, I guess we'll just keep on crossing our fingers that he figures out how to get control of his "stuff."
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
The bottom line, from where I sit, is this: if I'm a ballclub with serious financial considerations every season, the last thing I want is my #1 pick running his arbitration/free-agency clock learning how to be a ballplayer in the majors.
He could be better than all 5 starters the Reds plan to take North, but if he's going to live up to his hype, I want some DOMINATING years out of him as a memebr of the Reds, not just a few middling years and then reach his prime wearing some other uniform because he hit free agency before he finished developing.
Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022
I'd rather the Reds not sweat arb clocks at all if it means creating the best 25-man roster year in and year out.
But I don't want the Reds to start Bailey; that would be wack. I want them to bring him along a la Oswalt--out of the bullpen. This season, preferably.
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
Well, nobody has to worry about it now anyway as he was sent back to the minors camp today.
As for not knowing where it is going..Nuxhall said today during the broadcast he was very impressed with and the kid knew what he wanted to do with his pitches...ala 5 Ks in 2 innings. Also leads the team in Ks. I used to pitch and you don't do that w/o some form of command. Maybe it is a fluke this spring but there is such a thing as turning the corner over the winter. I hope he has but as my mother-in-law once said, "Hope in one hand and sh$# in the other then see which one fills up first."
simple, the guys has pitched one season of pro ball in which he threw a little over 100 innings. He does not have the arm strength built up to pitch a major lrague season. Putting him in the majors is a recipe for an arm injury. He has neither the command or stamina to be effective at the majors yet.
That is a dubious achievement on this squad. Sort of like being the best hockey player in Paraguay. We also have to remember that he is a 19 year old kid. Not only is he still developing physically but he is also developing mentally. WOY mentioned David Clyde earlier. One of the problems with Clyde is that he was partying too much. Who is Homer going to hang out with after games? I suppose he could stay in his hotel room and watch SpectraVision but would it not be better for him to be around people his own age for at least a few years? Someone asked about the difference between high school kids who go straight into the NBA and Homer. One difference is that of all the HS kids that get drafted, only a select few make it big. Some of the others were not talented enough or they started hanging out with the wrong crowd or they did not work hard enough or they got injured. I would rather see a 19 year old position player in the major leagues than a 19 year old pitcher. I fear that the organization is so hungry for pitching they are going to bring him north next spring and actually start him. I really would not mind them bringing him up for the last few weeks of the season this year but with the stipulation that he does not pitch. Of course that would mean putting him on the 40 man roster and start burning his options. I am not quite sure when he has to be on the 40 man roster but I would rather they not put him on there any sooner than they have to.
Bailey gets good gauge of progress
Former Reds top pick heads to Minors feeling good
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com
SARASOTA, Fla. -- All Reds top pitching prospect Homer Bailey wanted from his first big league Spring Training was to see how well he stacked up against Major League hitters.
The answer: quite well.
Part of the latest round of roster cuts made Sunday, the 19-year-old Bailey can head to the Minor League clubhouse knowing he didn't squander any of his chances.
"I came here and, like Ray Charles said, 'Let it do what it do, baby,'" Bailey said Saturday about his performances this spring after he threw a strong 2 2/3 innings with five strikeouts against Pittsburgh.
In four games, totaling 7 1/3 innings, the Reds' 2004 first-round draft pick posted a 0-0 record and 2.45 ERA. He walked three and left camp leading the club with 10 strikeouts.
"I'm real happy he finished up with the outing he had [Saturday]," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "I thought that was a real positive for him. I think it's a real good confidence builder for him as he heads back to Minor League camp to get ready for the season. You always like to see a young guy like that go out on a positive note."
With the fifth starter role up for grabs between Justin Germano and Michael Gosling in case Paul Wilson's shoulder isn't ready in April, Reds manager Jerry Narron said he was "looking for a guy who has the best chance to get the most people out."
This spring, that has been Bailey. But Narron knew taking the kid north was not an option, yet.
"Sometimes, you have to do what's best for the long haul and not short-term," Narron said.
Bailey, who will begin the regular season at high Class A Sarasota, was aware Saturday that he probably was headed out of camp.
"I know I still have to work things that I need to work on," he said. "Because of my age and lack of experience, I understand where they're coming from by putting me where they're going to put me. The best thing I can do right now is keep the right frame of mind and keep doing whatever it is I'm doing. Don't change anything."
On the move: Reliever and 2003 first-round pick Ryan Wagner entered Sunday having allowed just one base runner over his last six appearances. Wagner was 2-1 with a 3.86 ERA in seven games, totaling seven innings, this spring.
Names in the game: Former Reds great George Foster has been working with big-league and Minor League hitters since coming to camp as a guest instructor last week. Foster said he was trying to help young hitters and outfielders with their approach to the game.
What they're saying: "I have been very impressed with him. He does not look like a 19-year-old kid out there. He competes extremely well. He's very composed. He still has a long way to go. He doesn't want to just make the Major League team. He wants to be a great Major League pitcher." -- Narron, on Bailey
Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...=.jsp&c_id=cin
Seaver was a on the fence prospect when he was at JC, alot of scouts didn't like him, after JC he went to USC and got his motion together, that's when he became Tom Terrific big time pitching prospect, by the time Hodges ever saw Tom Seaver he was 22 years old and had pitched in a big time college program.Did anyone see the Reds special on Tom Seaver. Back in 1969, Gil Hodges took one look at his pitching staff in spring training and declared Seaver as one of his starter's
There's a world of difference from the age 18/19 to 22/23,
Here's the difference between what you can expect out of guys 21-22 and guys under 20.
Since 1945.
AGE <= 20
ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
Code:GAMES STARTED YEAR GS ERA SO/9 IP BB/9 IP RSAA AGE 1 Gary Nolan 1970 37 0.79 6.49 3.44 25 22 T2 Don Gullett 1973 30 0.16 6.04 2.72 -4 22 T2 Jeff Russell 1984 30 -.67 5.00 3.22 -8 22 4 Herm Wehmeier 1949 29 -.65 3.38 4.94 -19 22 5 Ross Grimsley 1972 28 0.40 3.60 2.28 2 22 6 Frank Pastore 1980 27 0.34 5.36 2.05 9 22 T7 Ross Grimsley 1971 26 -.10 3.74 2.40 -5 21 T7 Wayne Simpson 1970 26 1.04 6.09 4.14 23 21 9 Herm Wehmeier 1948 24 -1.92 3.43 4.59 -28 21 10 Ken Hunt 1961 22 0.06 4.96 4.37 3 22 11 Wayne Simpson 1971 21 -1.30 4.69 5.92 -19 22 12 Jim O'Toole 1959 19 -1.22 4.74 5.09 -14 22 T13 Jim Maloney 1962 17 0.42 8.22 5.17 6 22 T13 Kent Peterson 1948 17 -.64 4.20 3.88 -6 22 T13 Kent Peterson 1947 17 -.20 4.62 3.67 -9 21 T13 Buddy Lively 1947 17 -.62 3.80 4.61 -13 22 T13 Scott Scudder 1989 17 -.98 5.92 5.47 -9 21 18 Don Gullett 1972 16 -.48 6.40 2.87 -12 21 T19 John Roper 1994 15 -.28 4.99 2.93 -3 22 T19 John Roper 1993 15 -1.58 6.08 4.05 -14 21 T19 Jay Hook 1959 15 -1.18 4.22 4.44 -8 22 T19 Mike LaCoss 1978 15 -.92 2.91 4.31 -8 22 T19 Gary Nolan 1969 15 0.05 6.85 3.30 0 21 24 Jay Tibbs 1984 14 0.73 3.58 2.95 11 22 25 Tom Carroll 1974 13 -.06 4.27 5.08 -1 21 T26 Jim Maloney 1961 11 -.33 5.40 5.59 -2 21 T26 Billy McCool 1967 11 -.06 7.70 5.20 2 22 T28 Jeff Russell 1983 10 0.61 5.27 2.90 6 21 T28 Scott Scudder 1990 10 -1.10 5.27 3.77 -9 22 T28 Eddie Erautt 1947 10 -1.00 3.25 4.01 -18 22 31 Frank Pastore 1979 9 -.51 5.95 2.17 -7 21 T32 Tom Carroll 1975 7 -1.35 2.68 4.98 -7 22 T32 C.J. Nitkowski 1995 7 -1.94 5.01 4.18 -7 22 T32 Dennys Reyes 1998 7 -.19 10.24 6.28 -1 21 T35 Josh Hall 2003 5 -2.28 6.57 5.47 -6 22 T35 Bobby Ayala 1992 5 -.84 7.14 4.03 -3 22 T35 Ron Robinson 1984 5 0.87 5.45 2.95 5 22 T38 Sammy Ellis 1962 4 -2.81 8.68 9.32 -9 21 T38 Frank Smith 1950 4 0.28 5.44 3.86 5 22 T38 Elizardo Ramirez 2005 4 -4.23 3.63 4.03 -10 22 T38 Manny Sarmiento 1978 4 -.80 5.09 3.82 -10 22 T42 Curt Lyons 1996 3 -.28 7.88 3.94 0 21 T42 Milt Wilcox 1971 3 0.15 4.36 3.53 0 21 T44 Mario Soto 1978 1 1.08 6.50 6.50 2 21 T44 Dennys Reyes 1999 1 0.77 10.51 5.69 5 22 T44 Jim O'Toole 1958 1 2.67 5.14 6.43 2 21 T44 Mel Behney 1970 1 -.45 1.80 7.20 0 22 T44 Jay Hook 1958 1 -8.05 15.00 6.00 -3 21 GAMES STARTED YEAR GS ERA SO/9 IP BB/9 IP RSAA AGE 1 Gary Nolan 1967 32 0.80 8.17 2.46 27 19 2 Don Gullett 1971 31 0.83 4.42 2.64 16 20 3 Gary Nolan 1968 22 0.58 6.66 2.94 18 20 T4 Mario Soto 1977 10 -1.43 6.53 3.86 -10 20 T4 Jim Maloney 1960 10 -.88 6.75 5.20 -6 20 T6 Claude Osteen 1960 3 -1.30 2.81 5.63 -7 20 T6 Billy McCool 1964 3 1.11 8.80 2.93 12 19 T8 Milt Wilcox 1970 2 1.64 5.24 2.82 4 20 T8 Herm Wehmeier 1945 2 -8.80 0.00 7.20 -5 18 T8 Billy McCool 1965 2 -.75 10.29 4.03 -7 20 T8 Jay Hook 1957 2 -.62 5.40 7.20 0 20 T8 Don Gullett 1970 2 1.63 8.77 5.08 15 19
Seaver also spent a year in the Marines out of high school. That was on the special too.
Don't let Grady Fuson know that. Next thing you know, he'll be requiring that all San Diego pitching draft picks must enlist for two years.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
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