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View Poll Results: Like the Pena trade?

Voters
238. You may not vote on this poll
  • Like the trade

    123 51.68%
  • Dislike the trade

    67 28.15%
  • Don't know

    48 20.17%
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Thread: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

  1. #46
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    That's a big IF. Arroyo's peripherals weren't good last year. His opponent OPS went up over 40 points from '04 and his K rate completely fell off the table.

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  3. #47
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    If you look at the statistics of both big trades (the Casey for Williams and Pena for Arroyo trades), you get the feeling that the Reds gave up some offense for pitching. Witness this...

    Arroyo has averaged 12 wins the last two years. Harang has averaged around ten. Both have averaged around 10 losses. Both will give you +/- 33 starts and both allow about the same number of hits as innings pitched (a big improvement over the last few years). Neither are great finishers with Harang having two complete games to Arroyo's none. Both are on track to pitch 200 innings. Harang's ERA over the last two years is 4.22 and Arroyo's is 4.29. Close. But if you look at the next best pitcher on the Reds, you get Brandon Claussen who's sample size is so small you can't predict what he will do. His ERA is 4.22 for the two year period.

    Compare that with 2004's rotation of Wilson, Harang, Lidle/Claussen (Claussen basically took over for Lidle after he was traded), and the two question marks (Hancock, Hudson, Jesus, etc) with a Harang, Arroyo, Claussen, Williams, and Milton rotation and it's all the difference in the world. Although there are no aces there at least they beat Von Poppel, Hudson, Hancock, Sanchez, Bong et al. So, it's an improvement.

    We lose some offense. Assuming that Hatteburg goes to first and Freel to the outfield to replace Pena and Casey, you get more runs scored looking at their two year averages, less home runs, less RBI's, but more doubles, triples, and hits.

    I don't know gang. Maybe WayneK knows what he is doing. I'm willing to give him a chance. I think the club is vastly improved over 2004 and somwhat improved over 2005. Time will tell, but I see a major league starting staff now where two years ago I saw a mockery and last year a travesty.
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  4. #48
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    I like this trade, and I'm a huge Wily Mo fan.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  5. #49
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    If Arroyo slots between Harang and Claussen, it should give us a punchers chance in 60% vs.40% of this rotation's starts. That's worth WMP's 35 home runs to me.

    Let's see what goes north before lamenting the right side of the infield. I expect other moves, as teams trim their rosters, and it won't take much to improve that situation.

  6. #50
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    Pitching, pitching, pitching. Good pitching or bad pitching? Gotta start somewhere. OFs do not win divisons or get a team into the playoffs. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  7. #51
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    Really don't like it. Not enough to help this team contend this year. By this time next year we will be hoping someone will take Bronson off of our hands. In my opinion he is nothing but an average pitcher at the end of his good 2-year run. Think Elmer Dessens (post-Reds).

    We got older and lost potential, not the right direction for a team that is still light years away from contending.

  8. #52
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    I can live with it. I'm not a big WMP fan anyway. Just doesn't get on base enough for me. (I've longed predicted that he ends up in Japan for a couple years soon). I think Arrooroorooroo will be easier to flip at the deadline for some more arms to a contender.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #53
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    I think Arrooroorooroo will be easier to flip at the deadline for some more arms to a contender.
    seems like all we flip are burgers. Need to start flippin some steaks.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #54
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    After thinking about this trade over the last 22 hours or so, I still have to vote "I Don't Know."

    I do know that Wily Mo had loads of potential. But the same could be said about virtually any player who makes it as far as the big leagues. I cannot annoint him a future superstar based on a half year performance in 2004. And apart from that stretch in 2004, Pena never showed any signs of getting better. I cannot imagine that given WMP's woeful OBP, that Theo was going to cough any real pitching value up.

    As far as BA coming to the Reds, he wouldn't have been my first choice. But no team is going to give up a #1 or #2 pitcher in return for Pena. In fact, I don't see WK being able to improve the pitching at all unless he is willing to part with Adam Dunn. (I don't see any other GM's giving up decent pitching for ANY of the Reds' spare parts.)

    And I am appalled at just how bad Arroyo's numbers are on paper. But then reality hits and I see that his terrible numbers last year would have been made him the third best pitcher on this team not far behind Harang and Claussen - far better than both Milton and the guy we got from the Angels (his name escapes me at the moment).

    The worst part of this is that Hattesburg is the new 1B. I would love to see him become a "Joe Randa" and be moved for prospects come June or July.

    I just going to hold off a while to see what happens before making up my mind about this.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  11. #55
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    Re: Brief Poll: Like the Pena trade?

    I like this trade. I think Wily Mo is quite a bit over-valued by a lot of Reds fans. Sure he can hit impressive home runs at a pretty good rate, but what else could he do? He can't field, can't run the bases (when he manages to get on base), can't seem to stay healthy for any long periods of time. Heck, his home run rate versus right-handed pitching really isn't all that impressive (32 HRs in 562 ABs - not bad but not impressive). Wily Mo just seems like a very one-dimensional player to me. In fact I'd almost call him half-dimensional since he really only shines against left-handed pitching. Sure, who knows what the future will bring for Wily Mo? But right now, I just don't see him as being all that valuable.


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