Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 65

Thread: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

  1. #46
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Beyond all of that, Jr.'s defense is so bad (he's easily the worst CF in MLB) that the reward for shifting him out of CF overwhelms whatever minimal increase there might be on injury risk. Frankly I think it's a matter of the organization not allowing itself to even think about how much its big money player has lost in the field.
    a flyball starting staff with the worst defensive OF in baseball is NOT a pretty combination.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #47
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,336

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    They may think it, but I tend to think that's BS. You don't start and stop any more frequently in an OF corner than you do in CF. In fact you do it less because, unlike a CF, you aren't on your horse for every flyball hit to the OF.
    Kullman said that they are concerned about him running into the walls in the corners. They also worry about him playing 1st because of the potential problems it could cause his legs.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  4. #48
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    So, it sounds like the only way the Reds will upgrade the OF defense is by trading Junior.

  5. #49
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM
    So, it sounds like the only way the Reds will upgrade the OF defense is by trading Junior.
    either that or by confiscating Gapper's ATV.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  6. #50
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,134

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Kullman said that they are concerned about him running into the walls in the corners. They also worry about him playing 1st because of the potential problems it could cause his legs.
    There's a wall out in CF too and constant running involved. Honestly, I took Kullman's statements on the subject as evidence that the organization didn't want to wrestle with the $12.5 million gorilla. The sad thing is that Jr. strikes me as a good and reasonable guy who'd move if you went to him and said, "Listen, this Denorfia kid's a better CF than you are. It would help the team if you moved to LF and it would be invaluable to the kid to have you at his side while he adjusted to the majors."
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #51
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    15,070

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    There's a wall out in CF too and constant running involved.

    One of JR's worst (looking) injuries was back in 95 (I think) when he ran full bore into the wall in the Kingdome. Breaking his wrist.

    Horrible accident.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  8. #52
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    6,267

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    I gotta side with M2 on this one. The Reds are just using the injury beef to avoid the issue of moving a future Hall of Famer from his mainstay position he's held his entire career, especially one in which he excelled at defensively in his younger days. It's justification in their mind to avoid it, and they'll believe what they want to believe, regardless of the validity.

    It's just more bad decision making at work in terms of wins and losses. Both the offense and defense are better off with Griffey in left, Dunn at first, Denorfia in center and Hatteberg out of the lineup. But the reality of old baseball men rules all, and forward thinking for the benefit of the team is rarely allowed to emerge unscathed.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  9. #53
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Panama City Beach
    Posts
    13,766

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792
    It's just more bad decision making at work in terms of wins and losses. Both the offense and defense are better off with Griffey in left, Dunn at first, Denorfia in center and Hatteberg out of the lineup. But the reality of old baseball men rules all, and forward thinking for the benefit of the team is rarely allowed to emerge unscathed.
    And Freel at second.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
    - - Rowdy Roddy Piper

    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
    - - Fletch

  10. #54
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    6,267

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy
    And Freel at second.
    Darn it, Puffy, you're uncovering my conspiracy to support Tony Womack playing second base, leading off and offsetting all the positives gained from moving Griffey to left field!

    In all seriousness, Freel leading off and playing second should be a given, but I'm sure we're all pretty confident that Narron will find a way to screw that one up too.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  11. #55
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    55,571

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy
    And Freel at second.
    No way, he's too valuable to actually play.
    Go Gators!

  12. #56
    Member Red Heeler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Cookeville, TN
    Posts
    1,658

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    There's a wall out in CF too and constant running involved. Honestly, I took Kullman's statements on the subject as evidence that the organization didn't want to wrestle with the $12.5 million gorilla. The sad thing is that Jr. strikes me as a good and reasonable guy who'd move if you went to him and said, "Listen, this Denorfia kid's a better CF than you are. It would help the team if you moved to LF and it would be invaluable to the kid to have you at his side while he adjusted to the majors."
    I've said for 4 years now that the best way to improve the outfield AND infield defense is to move Jr. to 1B. It has been said by more than one person that if he had been right handed, Jr. would have been a plus defender at SS. If you put him at 1B, I'll take any and all bets that within a year he is considered among the top few defensive firstbasemen in the Majors.

    The problem is that old star athletes are really bad at deciding when they are no longer a stud at their position. Junior and the Reds management may say that 1B would be harder on his legs for a legion of reasons, but every bit of it is bunk. I don't blame Junior for it any more than I blame Larkin for resisting a move off of SS. It is simply the nature of the beast.

    To move Junior out of CF, the Reds need a non-lame-duck manager with a set of brass cajones. Simply tell him that he needs to break in a firstbaseman's mitt, or you will do your best to trade him into a favorable situation for him.

  13. #57
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,782

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    I've said for 4 years now that the best way to improve the outfield AND infield defense is to move Jr. to 1B.
    I agree, but the prevailing argument is that it's harder on the legs to play 1B than it is to play CF. Personally, I don't buy it, but I'm not a doctor.

    a flyball starting staff with the worst defensive OF in baseball is NOT a pretty combination.
    Good thing the Reds just acquired a groundball pitcher in Arroyo.

    Umm...wait a minute...
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  14. #58
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Portland, OR (West Chester, OH)
    Posts
    6,091

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    I think if there's one thing Wayne Krivsky's going to know how to do, it's improve the Reds' team defense. The Twinks were always among the league leaders in D and their prospects rarely came up to the bigs with bad gloves. Some of 'em couldn't hit, but they could almost always field well.

    Oh, sure, Kriv might torpedo the offense in the process, but I do have faith the D will get better over the next year or two.
    Last edited by Doc. Scott; 03-21-2006 at 05:06 PM.

  15. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    princeton, nj
    Posts
    9,482

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    whose prevailing argument?

  16. #60
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,759

    Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    I agree, but the prevailing argument is that it's harder on the legs to play 1B than it is to play CF. Personally, I don't buy it, but I'm not a doctor.


    I can recall that argument being made 40 years ago before the Yankees finally moved Mantle from the outfield to firstbase.
    I don't buy the argument. I've played both positions (admittedly at a very, very, very low level of competition). Firstbase is the easiest position I have ever played.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25