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Thread: What's wrong with Denorfia???

  1. #16
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Let me help clear it up for you.
    Yep, it's clear as mud.

    Hatteberg isn't a "Randa-type" player by any comparison. He lacks Randa's skills both from a defensive and offensive standpoint. This trade doesn't help the defense at all--it takes away an awful defensive outfielder and replaces him with a sub-par defensive outfielder, and adds a sub-par defensive first baseman to along with an awful defensive second baseman. A team *truly* concerned about defense would have Kearns in right, Denorfia in center, and Junior in left, with Dunn honing his skills as a first baseman and Freel manning second base. That would also, coincidentally, provide the Reds with their strongest possible offensive lineup.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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  3. #17
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    Yep, it's clear as mud.

    Hatteberg isn't a "Randa-type" player by any comparison. He lacks Randa's skills both from a defensive and offensive standpoint. This trade doesn't help the defense at all--it takes away an awful defensive outfielder and replaces him with a sub-par defensive outfielder, and adds a sub-par defensive first baseman to along with an awful defensive second baseman. A team *truly* concerned about defense would have Kearns in right, Denorfia in center, and Junior in left, with Dunn honing his skills as a first baseman and Freel manning second base. That would also, coincidentally, provide the Reds with their strongest possible offensive lineup.
    Their thinking is that Hatteberg is better defensively than Dunn at 1B and Dunn is better in LF than Wily Mo.

    Your scenario involves two position switches which is seldom a good thing (Jr and Dunn). Add to that the reality that those two are superstars making tons of money and neither one of them wants to switch. I don't think that's a battle they care to fight right now. The benefits would be marginal and not worth the grief. Kind of like trying to move Barry Larkin to 2B. Those moves are not going to improve the team like moving Pete Rose to 3B did in 1975. I don't see it happening in the real world. It's just Redszone talk.

  4. #18
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Their thinking is that Hatteberg is better defensively than Dunn at 1B and Dunn is better in LF than Wily Mo.

    Your scenario involves two position switches which is seldom a good thing (Jr and Dunn). Add to that the reality that those two are superstars making tons of money and neither one of them wants to switch. I don't think that's a battle they care to fight right now. The benefits would be marginal and not worth the grief. Kind of like trying to move Barry Larkin to 2B. Those moves are not going to improve the team like moving Pete Rose to 3B did in 1975. I don't see it happening in the real world. It's just Redszone talk.
    Junior strikes me as the kind of player who would be willing to move if he thought it would be beneficial to the team. I think, first and formost, Junior wants a championship, and anything he could do to further that cause would be worth pursuing. At the very least, the Reds could insert Denorfia into LF and continue to work with Dunn at first. Dunn will never be an exemplary outfielder, but he could become a very soolid first baseman.

    There likely are politics involved, I don't doubt that. But guys like Hatteberg and Womack are the answer to nothing. Any team that believes that players of that caliber are deserving of a prominent role with the team are relegating themselves to a bottom-of-the-division finish.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  5. #19
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Their thinking is that Hatteberg is better defensively than Dunn at 1B and Dunn is better in LF than Wily Mo.
    That is some great one-dimensional thinking on their part.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  6. #20
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Did the Reds not spend the entire winter telling us how their long term plans for Dunn were for him to be at first base?
    Brought to you by the same folks that told you Austin Kearns was going to be our third baseman. Oops.
    Does this franchise have a complete aversion to offering Freel any semblance of stability at one position?
    Yes

    As to Hatteberg. Krivsky is from the same front office that convinced the world that Doug Meintkiewicz was a starting first baseman. I suspect he is a believer in first base defence.

  7. #21
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs
    As to Hatteberg. Krivsky is from the same front office that convinced the world that Doug Meintkiewicz was a starting first baseman. I suspect he is a believer in first base defence.
    If he is truly a believer in first base defense, he'd want no part of Scott Hatteberg.

  8. #22
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    If Hatteberg stinks up the joint, they'll hopefully divert to Plan A, and replace WMP in the OF with Denorfia.

    How long before you think that will happen?
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  9. #23
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    2B Freel
    SS Lopez
    1B Dunn
    LF Griffey
    3B Encarnacion
    RF Kearns
    CF Denorfia
    C LaRue

    Please.

    Please.



    PLEASE!!
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

  10. #24
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    If Hatteberg stinks up the joint, they'll hopefully divert to Plan A, and replace WMP in the OF with Denorfia.

    How long before you think that will happen?
    It'll take Narron being fired.

    Who really gives a flip if Dunn prefers left? he signed a 3 year contract, his options are limited.
    Go Gators!

  11. #25
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by roby
    The Reds are missing a big opportunity if they DON'T start Denorfia. He would really shore up the outfield defense (thus helping the pitching), and would also be a contributor with the bat. (something that I don't thnk Hatteburg will do). It seems like a no-brainer!
    I agree. I have seen him play in 6 games this spring and he has impressed me quite a bit. Reminds me of Brady Clark.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  12. #26
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Denorfia still has options. In Reds World that means he's ticketed for AAA while McCracken and Womack clog up the big league roster.

  13. #27
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    It'll take Narron being fired.

    Who really gives a flip if Dunn prefers left? he signed a 3 year contract, his options are limited.
    Yes, he prefers left... but he was more than willing to play first.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  14. #28
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Denorfia just isn't that good. Once guys are around for more than a month, teams start to figure out how to pitch them. There are many many many examples. Bo Hart, StL. Chris Stynes in his debut with the reds.

    Look at Denorfia. He's a stick figure. He can't handle the MLB. He's hitting
    .250 in SPRING TRAINING. Come on.

  15. #29
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmlx9
    Denorfia just isn't that good. Once guys are around for more than a month, teams start to figure out how to pitch them. There are many many many examples. Bo Hart, StL. Chris Stynes in his debut with the reds.

    Look at Denorfia. He's a stick figure. He can't handle the MLB. He's hitting
    .250 in SPRING TRAINING. Come on.
    Yeah and Adam Dunn is hitting 235. Time to shake things up, get some guys that can handle ST. Lets go get 25 Tony Womacks he knows how to do it. While we're at it let's get Claussen some at-bats. He's hitting 400.!!!!!!!!!! He needs to start everyday.

    I think you are misinformed with Denorfia. He actually has some skills. He can field with good range, has a very good arm, and does everythin else fairly well including having the patience to take a walk. If given a decent chance I bet Denorfia would surprise a lot of people.

  16. #30
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    Re: What's wrong with Denorfia???

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    Does this franchise have a complete aversion to offering Freel any semblance of stability at one position?
    When he plays everyday, he gets hurt, run down etc and misses a lot of time; and as somebody else has said it looks like they don't want him near 2nd.

    With the new regime in place and some of the other moves, when you do the math, it is not that difficult to come up with a scenario where Freel doesn't even make the team, especially if they end up going with 3 catchers.

    I think Kata makes the team becasue he is only viable backup shortstop and can also play 2nd and third. Aurilia is back up at 3rd, 2nd and 1st.

    Wise or Cruz is going to make the team as as a lefthanded bat off the bench (Wise gives them a more versatile OF so it is probably him).

    So for position players

    LaRue
    Valentin
    Ross
    Hatteburg
    Aurilia
    Womack
    Lopez
    Encarnacion
    Kata
    Griffey
    Kearns
    Dunn
    Wise

    There are 13 without Freel. The 3rd catcher becomes the righthanded bat off the bench if Aurilia is starting. Womack is the 5th outfielder. Denorfia gets the call up if an OF goes down.

    Not saying it will go down this way or that it is my first choice; but when you look at what is going on, you have to wonder.
    Last edited by jnwohio; 03-22-2006 at 12:28 AM.


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