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Thread: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

  1. #151
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Here's the Boston Globe's Bosox blogger on the trade:

    A few Mo' questions

    The moral? Don’t make any “gentleman’s agreements” with the Red Sox.

    Scratch off another member of the ever-disappearing 2004 World Champs today, as the Red Sox sent Bronson Arroyo to the Cincinnati Reds for outfielder Wily Mo Pena, a 24-year-old slugger who hit 19 home runs in 99 games last season.

    Arroyo, who won 14 games for Boston in 2005, had his first decent outing since arriving in Florida this month yesterday against the Orioles. He signed a hometown-discounted three-year, $11.25 million contract in January with a handshake from Theo Epstein that indicated the team didn’t have plans to trade him at the time. It was a deal he went against the advice of his agent to sign.

    Oops.

    Now, besides what this does for Avalon’s off nights in the summer, one has to wonder what it means for Trot Nixon’s future in Boston. The right-handed hitting Pena will likely platoon with Nixon; but at 24, the much-younger Pena is certainly more in the long-range plans for the franchise than a guy like the oft-injured Nixon, who at 31 is signed through the end of this season. But with the continued offensive struggles of third baseman Mike Lowell, there remains the possibility that Pena could see time at first base, allowing Kevin Youkilis to return to his more natural position across the diamond.

    That is, of course, as long as Pena matures as a hitter. Right now, he’s nothing more than Dave Kingman or Pete Incaviglia. Is he worth trading a young and versatile starting pitcher that was willing to go to the bullpen for? That can be argued, and likely will be for this entire season.

    Again, as the Red Sox have handled themselves all winter, this was a deal with an eye on the long term, not a six-month sprint to October. Arroyo is just 29, and while not a blue chip prospect, was a 14-game winner last season. Now, it can be argued fervently that Arroyo topped out in 2005, that to expect him to match or better than performance is unrealistic, in which case the Red Sox would be crazy not to get value for him while his value was still high. After Arroyo struggled all spring, Epstein probably could only wriggle out a decent deal after yesterday’s performance against Baltimore and struck while the proverbial iron had some heat to it.

    But Pena is a weird choice for this lineup, one predicated on patience at the plate, of which Pena has none. He has a pathetic .303 career on-base percentage, but is coming off a solid performance for the Dominican Republic in the World Baseball Classic, batting .400 over three games with one run driven in. He also might conjure unpleasant memories of Mark Bellhorn, who struck out 116 times in 311 at-bats. That’ll go over well with the crowd.

    How much of his prior performance is based on youth and immaturity? Andruw Jones took almost an entire decade to mature into the All-Star player he is today. Despite a waiting room full of hope and hype, it never happened for Jose Cruz Jr. Where Wily Mo Pena lies among them remains to be seen.

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  3. #152
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Scott Hatteberg folks, .677 OPS last year.

    100 losses here we come.

    I hate Jerry Narron. Combined 1000 atbats between Womack and Hatteberg.

    So, if they had not done the deal you think they would be a playoff team? Get off your Wily Mo high-horse and see things for what they are. THEY NEED PITCHING. If Arroyo even just wins 12-13 games, they'll be a better team.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. That’s the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  4. #153
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    So this becomes our new team:

    1. Tony Womack 2B
    2. Felipe Lopez SS
    3. Ken Griffey, Jr. CF
    4. Adam Dunn LF
    5. Edwin Encarnacion 3B
    6. Austin Kearns RF
    7. Scott Hatteberg 1B
    8. Jason LaRue C

    1. Aaron Harang R
    2. Bronson Arroyo R
    3. Brandon Claussen L
    4. Eric Milton L
    5. Dave Williams L

    Bench:
    Ryan Freel
    Chris Denorfia
    Javier Valentin
    Rich Aurilia
    Quinton McCracken ??

    Bullpen:
    Chris Hammond L
    Kent Mercker L
    David Weathers R
    Ryan Wagner R
    Matt Belisle R
    Todd Coffey R
    Rick White R
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

  5. #154
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    BTW

    Hatteberg 50% PECOTA is a -4.0
    Womack is is a -9.0 and unbelievably his 90% is -3.6

    Denorfia is a 5.9
    Freel is a 3.9

    You look at that and it suggests that Denorfia should become the OF starter and Dunn stays at 1st.

    But that isn't going to happen. And THAT is what pisses me off the most. Can anyone here answer me why you play Womack and Hatteberg when this team was going nowhere, anyway, this year. Denorfia should be playing and Dunn should be at 1B. At worst, Freel in the OF, but Denorfia makes the most sense if you are going to make this trade!

    Cedric put it well when he said:
    Why is Arroyo worth the risk of trading Pena now? Do you really care about winning 75 games instead of 65? I'd rather give Pena a chance for a big early start and then flip him for something that could help later this season. What's the big rush in going from extremely crappy to still very crappy?

  6. #155
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Hatteberg at 1B will make us long for the days of Todd Benzinger.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  7. #156
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    If Hatteberg is going to start at 1st base though, I really loathe the Sean Casey trade now.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  8. #157
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    So, if they had not done the deal you think they would be a playoff team? Get off your Wily Mo high-horse and see things for what they are. THEY NEED PITCHING. If Arroyo even just wins 12-13 games, they'll be a better team.

    So we win 80 games instead of 70 and in the process, lose WMP who very well could have been flipped for something much more substantial at the AS break or in the offseason?!?

  9. #158
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    So, if they had not done the deal you think they would be a playoff team? Get off your Wily Mo high-horse and see things for what they are. THEY NEED PITCHING. If Arroyo even just wins 12-13 games, they'll be a better team.
    Get off your high-horse and realize that we need GOOD pitching.

    This team sucks. Subtracting Pena, adding Arroyo, and giving Womack and Hatteberg 500 atbats makes this team worse. I will be laughing when we lose our 100th game.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  10. #159
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    How is noone else furious about Hatteberg now playing 1B?!?

  11. #160
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Get off your high-horse and realize that we need GOOD pitching.

    This team sucks. Subtracting Pena, adding Arroyo, and giving Womack and Hatteberg 500 atbats makes this team worse. I will be laughing when we lose our 100th game.

    I really thought you were overreacting about the trade an hour ago. When news came down that Hatteberg is our starting 1B, I'm right there with you now.

  12. #161
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    I guarantee you that ten years from now, people will be talking about this trade like they do with the Bagwell trade. Pena will go on and hit 500 homeruns in his career while the Reds may get a few decent years out of Arroyo...maybe.
    while not fielding worth a crap and giving no effort. he will have to get traded to be reg in the bigs

  13. #162
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Some of you amaze me. Reds make no moves for pitching? You complain. They try and get some pitching? You complain. The Reds aren't going to spend $20+ million a year to sign the latest free agents like the Yankees, pitching will have to be developed or traded for, just the way it is.
    What amazes me is how some of you think ANY pitching is an improvement. Were you also the people who supported the Milton signing last season? Uh-huh. And how did that turn out?

    Do any of you still like the Dave Williams deal?

    The issue is that the Reds need to target GOOD pitchers, not junkballers like Arroyo.

    The last thing the Reds need is a flyball pitcher who can't strike batters out. That's exactly what Arroyo was last season.

    His ridiculous dropoff in K rate from 2004 to 2005 indicates something is extremely wrong with him. If it is fixable, I doubt the Red Sox would be so willing to part with him.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  14. #163
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SC Reds Fans
    So we win 80 games instead of 70 and in the process, lose WMP who very well could have been flipped for something much more substantial at the AS break or in the offseason?!?
    and how is this. what contender would trade for a guy who cant play def and strikes out a ton

  15. #164
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Two hours I was very excited for the season to begin, now I am dreading it. I don't want to watch Tony Womack and Scott Hatteberg all season. UGH!
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  16. #165
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    What amazes me is how some of you think ANY pitching is an improvement. Were you also the people who supported the Milton signing last season? Uh-huh. And how did that turn out?

    The last thing the Reds need is a flyball pitcher who can't strike batters out. That's exactly what Arroyo was last season.

    His ridiculous dropoff in K rate from 2004 to 2005 indicates something is extremely wrong with him. If it is fixable, I doubt the Red Sox would be so willing to part with him.
    actually what is amazing is how sad some of your lifes are. i really feel for you guys who cant ever be happy. and no, i wasnt happy when we got milton and yes i am happy today. we traded our WORST young player for a cheap good no. 3 starter. we cant get anymore than that for wily no defense pena. face it. when we bring homer up and get another pitcher and arroyo is our no.3/no.4 pitcher at 3.8 mill, i bet you guys arent whining anymore


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