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Thread: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

  1. #196
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: it amazes me

    Is this the congrgation at the Church of Our Lady of perpetual 90 loss Seasons?


    Im a fan regardless,whether they win 90 or lose 90. And I will preach my loyalty to this team until my last breath for that is what it is to be a fan.

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  3. #197
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Do any of you still like the Dave Williams deal?
    I did because I felt that the Reds with Pena+Kearns full time would produce better at less of a cost than Pena/Kearns + Casey.

    I thought it really was the best they could get for Casey and Williams as a #5 would be just that, a #5 starter.

    After today, its a bit different, because your lineup now has Kearns + Hatteberg....and Arroyo doesnt make up for that.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  4. #198
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    This gives hope, and I'm surprised that everyone overlooked it.
    The problem isn't Arroyo. The problem is they are going to have two loads of dung(who have no reason even being on a roster, much less starting) manning 1b and 2b. Nobody seems to know where the smell is coming from.

    The 50% PECOTA line for both is a negative VORP and their career is defined by large FRAA numbers at 1b and 2b.

    Denorfia projects a higher VORP(+6) and brings above average defense in the OF.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #199
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: it amazes me

    gO rEdz
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  6. #200
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    No, it doesn't mean more Wins. You can't offset a Run value loss offensively without making it up somewhere. To actually add Wins, you need to receive more Run value than you gave up in the context of your alternatives. The Reds don't do that with this trade considering that Hatteberg is going to get the lion's share of PA at 1B. If Womack steals a goodly number of PA from better players as well, then you're looking at a few more losses than last season even with Arroyo in the mix.
    But why does this mean the Womack will play more? This is the line-up I'd expect...

    Freel/Aurilia 2B
    Lopez SS
    Griffey CF
    Dunn LF
    Kearns RF
    Encarnacion3B
    Hatteberg 1B
    LaRue C
    P

    With that line-up Womack may get two starts a week tops, same as any backup.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  7. #201
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: it amazes me

    Quote Originally Posted by NewEraReds
    you do not win with no defense
    and yet turning the 2b and 1B over to Womack and Hatteberg made the defense much worse than last year. Amazing. Beyond stupidity.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  8. #202
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I was so pumped for this season to begin. I couldn't wait to see what an offense led by youngsters Adam Dunn, Felipe Lopez, Edwin Encarnacion, Austin Kearns, and Wily Mo Pena could do. Add in a healthy Griffey, Freel, and LaRue and I thought this team score 850 or more runs this year. Now I am so disappointed. They will be lucky to score 750 runs this year with Hatteberg and Womack in the lineup.

    Very sad day. Completely ruined Opening Day for me.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  9. #203
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: it amazes me

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    gO rEdz
    i Reelly leik teh ReDz two.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  10. #204
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Narron is so full of crap. I can't wait until he is fired or his contract runs out. I would seriously rather have Bob Boone or Dave Miley.
    Wow. I thought I was the only one down on Narron. No way do I ever want Bob Boone in a reds uni ever again.

    FWIW Hatteberg will put up better numbers than he did last year and the reds should be able to aquire a cheap decent hitting firstbaseman to plug in there. Right now, it's a weakness, but, once a GM starts looking for them those kind of players are all around.

    Williams will be better than Milton/Ortiz from last year. That's progress of a sort. Sean Casey was way to expensive for his production.

    The red sox aquired Arroyo by claiming him off waivers from the Pirates. They got two seasons of him as a starter in Fenway Park and then flipped him for WMP. THAT'S a front office. That's what the reds need to be doing, finding waiver claims and 6 year minor league free agents with that kind of up side. Not selling players low and buying high.

    All that aside, Krivsky is trying to wrangle a baseball team out of the assembly of talent that Dan O'Brien left. As a fan I chaffed and chaffed under O'Brien's patient 'wait and see' mandates. While I don't agree with many of Krivsky's moves, I do appreciate that he is trying to form a baseball team, not get the best deal. In the short term, this deal made the reds better. The pitching was simply too thin.

    WMP sure does seem to leave a trail out there. I wonder how many of his teamates will come to the going away party. I have to wonder how that is going to play in Boston.

    Finally, I really wonder how long ago this deal was agreed upon. There were all kinds of comments when Hatteberg was signed. The reds never seriously seemed to want to put Adam Dunn at firstbase. Did he even see 10 innings there in ST? WMP never did come back from the WBC. I wonder if the deal was agreed upon weeks ago with only the amount of cash left over depending on circumstances when the deal was executed.

  11. #205
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    But why does this mean the Womack will play more? This is the line-up I'd expect...

    Freel/Aurilia 2B
    Lopez SS
    Griffey CF
    Dunn LF
    Kearns RF
    Encarnacion3B
    Hatteberg 1B
    LaRue C
    P

    With that line-up Womack may get two starts a week tops, same as any backup.
    Womack now has one less guy to stand between him and PT considering that Freel is now more likely to back up an OF on a consistent basis. And if Womack gets two starts per week, that's a real issue- particularly when combined with Hatteberg stealing PA from better lineup options. No reason to slot Hatteberg at 1B and Dunn in the OF when you've got Denorfia available to play the OF on a daily basis.

    In short, Narron and Krivsky are going to use crappy players more often than they should as a result of the trade.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  12. #206
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    newera, yes he did take that into account.

    guttle, i dont think the rotation got much better. Is Arroyo going to be any better than Germano was? I am not sure about that one. I would rather have Pena back and Germano starting than not have Pena and have Arroyo.

  13. #207
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I would love to see Krivsky target Hee Seop Choi now. He can be had for cheap, and I really think he could have a breakout season in the Great American Ballpark. Or sign Carlos Pena if the Tigers do release him.

    Trade for Chris Young. The D-Backs are loaded with outfield prospects and would most likely part with him.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  14. #208
    Member PickOff's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Hey, I'd love to have dealt Pena for a #2 or #3 Starting Pitcher. But Bronson Arroyo isn't one of those. And of the two players, Arroyo is the guy whose value is most likely to never increase.

    The Reds just sold low and bought high and gained nothing of consequence from a Run Differential standpoint. To turn losing into winning via trade, a team actually has to win their trades on a consistent basis. Simply put, the Reds need to add more than they subtract in order to come out ahead. They haven't done that in what seems like forever and without doing that the losing will continue.
    When basing the trade on Run Differential you have to look at who the other players are that would/would have played in their absence. I feel we give up more runs with the alternatives to Arroyo than we lose with the alternatives to Pena.
    Thank goodness for baseball.

  15. #209
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    I would love to see Krivsky target Hee Seop Choi now. He can be had for cheap, and I really think he could have a breakout season in the Great American Ballpark. Or sign Carlos Pena if the Tigers do release him.
    couldn't agree more. At least they each have upside, it's all downhill for the ancient Hatteberg.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #210
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Oh my god...... we didn't even get a prospect back... not even a low level prospect...

    Bronson isn't even a starter. Please don't tell me we traded Wily Mo for an average 'closer'


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