Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

[NewEraReds]

that ive seen/heard so many fans mad with this trade. wily mo MAY turn out to be a very good player, but he isnt what we need. Wayne knows this. you do not win with no defense, no pitching and a bunch of 260, 200k, 40hr guys. you need defense, speed, pitching, etc. you need some power but not an entire team. he knows how to build a winner and i for one love this first move. and i even like it from the bosox point of view. wily mo is a good guy to have in the al. thank you wayne

[HalMorrisRules]

Lancaster is now saying that Dunn is back to LF, Hatteberg to 1B and the Reds got 1.5 million in the deal.

[letsgojunior]

Wily Mo faced better pitching in the NL Central.

Mo will thrive in Boston. Watch him have a huge year and great career up there.

While we're in the process of peering into our crystal balls, I'm going to predict that WMP is not going to have the spectacular career that you forecast for him. I think he'll struggle tremendously defensively in Fenway, which historically is a very hard field to play (especially if they put him in center to replace Damon). I think he'll struggle with the fans there, who are perhaps the most unforgiving in baseball. I think he'll be benefitted by the monster but also hurt with his opposite field power by both the triangle and the depth in RCF and RF. And frankly, I'm not all that convinced that he's a superstar. He has glimpses where he looks like one at times. He also has significant periods where he'll strike out on three consecutive pitches. He doesn't walk frequency, strikes out at an alarming rate, doesn't have particularly good instincts. He is what he is - a raw talent - I think it's still VERY debatable whether he'll develop in this case.

And I think citing the Bagwell trade is somewhat specious for several reasons: that is absolutely the worst case scenario in trades like this, you also have the countless other "5 tool superstars" who are traded, and amount to something less than they were projected beforehand - Terrence Long, Ruben Mateo, etc.

I'm not saying I think this trade is golden, or that Arroyo is spectacular - I'm just not being sure if WMP actually is deserving of the stature he's being given.

[NewEraReds]

Does this move in any way put Dunn back to the outfield and Hatteberg at first? I'm not sure how much I like this either, Pena is full of potential, but how long do the Reds wait for that? Plus, they do need pitching. I don't think Arroyo is a number one pitcher but he can help.

i dont think it does, maybe on more days than before. but i think you see freel or denorfia in left

[redsfan30]

Oh and it's official according to Marc's blog: Dunn is going back to left with Hatteberg getting the majority of the playing time at first base.

Also, we are getting $1.5 million back from the Sox.

[OnBaseMachine]

Lancaster is now saying that Dunn is back to LF, Hatteberg to 1B and the Reds got 1.5 million in the deal.

This trade is now a F-.

[NewEraReds]

Man, I really wish we had Chris Antonetti.

This was a chance to bring in a Joe Nathan/Francisco Liriano type deal. Instead we get a pitcher with a career 4.59 ERA.

Narron's whining worked for him. If you can't bunt or play gold glove defense then he hates you.

can you tell me how we could get that for a player who cant catch the ball if you throw it in his glove

[OnBaseMachine]

Scott Hatteberg folks, .677 OPS last year.

100 losses here we come.

I hate Jerry Narron. Combined 1000 atbats between Womack and Hatteberg.

[NewEraReds]

Krivsky specializes in contracts, and BA has a reasonable one.

it's not exactly building toward a BRM, but the move's coldly logical for a team that has bats and OFers but not even mediocre pitching

I give Krivsky an A for courage. Nobody else was brave enough to deal Pena, whose star could shine or nova.

exactly. arroyo is cheap and can pitch 200 plus innings, for a player who gives us nothing dif than the players we already have. when arroyo becomes our 4th starter in a year, at his cheap rate and his 10-15 wins, 200ip, we shall see who is whining

[OnBaseMachine]

can you tell me how we could get that for a player who cant catch the ball if you throw it in his glove

How did the Twins get what they got for a catcher who only posted an OPS over .775 once in his career.

[SirFelixCat]

Oh and it's official according to Marc's blog: Dunn is going back to left with Hatteberg getting the majority of the playing time at first base.

Also, we are getting $1.5 million back from the Sox.

You have got to be $*&^$ing me.

[Caveat Emperor]

I hate Jerry Narron. Combined 1000 atbats between Womack and Hatteberg.

I hear Ted Turner isn't too busy these days...

[NewEraReds]

Does anyone have a breakdown of groundball vs. flyball outs? Just curious, because if he is a true groundball pitcher then this may work out. I remember watching Arroyo in the playoffs in '04 and thinking that he did pitch with alot of heart.

I would rather have had Clement but maybe thats just because he is a "name" pitcher. He probably was too expensive even if Boston paid some of his salary when you consider that we got Arroyo AND cash. But if Castellini thinks that at any point in the future the Reds are going to be successful without spending money then he is looking at our minors through rose colored glasses.

like has been said many times, you cant win in a small market with a few high priced guys and a bunch of low ones. you need a bunch of middle guys, 1 or 2 higher guys and a few lower ones. clement wasnt even an option imo. arroyo has 3 years at 11.5 mill

[SteelSD]

Something absolutely had to give. If this team came north with the 5 man rotation it had penciled in from the start of spring training (figuring on Gosling/Germano/Wilson 5th man), there was a good chance of the team hitting the 100 loss plateau. Krivsky had to make a trade here, if for no other reason than to at least give the ballclub a fighting chance at keeping the losses under control. Given what we know about R-Cast, I wouldn't be surprised if the edict to "improve the pitching, now" came directly from the top.

I'm reserving judgment on this trade until I see how Arroyo deals with pitching in GABP and how he adjsuts to being in the National League. The numbers don't look favorable, but I can't help but drinking a bit of kool-aid at the thought of potentially not having to watch Paul Wilson or Mike Gosling take the ball every 5 days.

I suppose this means Kearns will stick around now -- somebdoy has made the determination that they still feel Kearns to have the better upside than Pena.

Six of Bronson Arroyo at age 29, half dozen of Matt Belisle at age 25. If you're going to do something, then don't trade away talent for probable performance you already have on your roster- particularly when the player you're acquiring will most likely be nothing but worse than he was the year prior.

And I really can't insulate Krivsky from this deal considering that he came from an environment in which Brad Radke is viewed as being worth ace-level money. Krivsky's the GM. It's his deal.

[flyer85]

BTW

Hatteberg 50% PECOTA is a -4.0
Womack is is a -9.0 and unbelievably his 90% is -3.6

Denorfia is a 5.9
Freel is a 3.9

You look at that and it suggests that Denorfia should become the OF starter and Dunn stays at 1st.