Turn Off Ads?
Page 16 of 31 FirstFirst ... 612131415161718192026 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 452

Thread: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

  1. #226
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed
    The real question here is, why Dunn back to LF? The reason for moving Dunn to first base wasn't a consensus opinion that he'd play first better than he'd play left, it was because we needed him to move so both Pena and Kearns could play.
    No but Dunn is below average in LF and is likely to always be. There is a very good defensive OF on the team in Denorfia who is likely to provide more offense than Hatteberg, his only drawback is not being a scrappy veteran. In addition Dunn could turn out to be a very good defensive 1b and is a huge target. Hatteberg is a bad defensive 1b(as he has always been) and is a small target. The move of Dunn back to LF makes no sense on any level is the answer is Hatteberg at 1B. He is less than a zero both offensively and defensively.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #227
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Centerville, OH
    Posts
    20,422

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Hey, I'd love to have dealt Pena for a #2 or #3 Starting Pitcher. But Bronson Arroyo isn't one of those. And of the two players, Arroyo is the guy whose value is most likely to never increase.

    The Reds just sold low and bought high and gained nothing of consequence from a Run Differential standpoint. To turn losing into winning via trade, a team actually has to win their trades on a consistent basis. Simply put, the Reds need to add more than they subtract in order to come out ahead. They haven't done that in what seems like forever and without doing that the losing will continue.

    I'd argue that the last trade that resulted in a win was the Rob Bell to TEX for Ruben Mateo and Edwin, and it took what? 4 years for that to be a win?
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

    Your Mom is happy.

  4. #228
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    5,717

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I kinda fall in the 'wait and see' category. The contract is good and BA is an improvement improvement over what we have, but I can't help wishing we got more.

    This seems to me the kind of deal a team makes when they have extra positional players, a loaded farm system and need one more pitcher to put them over the top in a pennant race. The Reds aren't going to compete - even with Arroyo. I'd have rather seen if WMP or Kearns could build more value and personally would have liked to seen a younger pitcher with more upside.

    I also wonder if Arroyo did a sweet hearts deal to stay in Boston. If he did, will he cause problems in Cincy and cann't he demand a trade at the end of the season since he has a LTC?

  5. #229
    Who Dey!! GridironGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Monticello, Kentucky
    Posts
    2,396

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    All i know is the excitement I had for another season is, atleast for now, GONE!!!!!!!!!


    I was gonna pick out my games to goto soon too woulda been my first ever trip to sit in the stands watch a game...

    Finally the Money and Time to do it... And they shoot me in the foot..

    I can honestly say Pena was prolly one of my Top 3 Favorite players on teh Reds and basiclly a Tie between Lopez and Jr.
    Proud Member of "The Bengals Lair"
    http://www.uranking.com/vote.asp?member=45269
    http://www.powerhouserock.net
    Somebody's gotta win and somebody's gotta lose and I believe in letting the other guy lose. - Pete Rose

  6. #230
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    5,923

    Re: it amazes me

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5
    Is this the congrgation at the Church of Our Lady of perpetual 90 loss Seasons?


    Im a fan regardless,whether they win 90 or lose 90. And I will preach my loyalty to this team until my last breath for that is what it is to be a fan.

    Hey, believe it or not, we all are fans of the Reds, regardless. But after losing season after losing season, and what seemed to be no hope in sight, we are allowed to lament, what we feel are more of the same type of moves that perpetuate losing.

  7. #231
    Moderator Tommyjohn25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Fairborn, OH
    Posts
    1,848

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    sorry wrong thread.
    Benzinger backing and calling! And the 1990 world championship series belongs to the Cincinnati Reds!

  8. #232
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SC Reds Fans
    But OMG the right side of the infield is a black hole.
    both with the glove and with the bat. It is amazing the Reds could even come up with such useless players. They bring nothing positive except for being "scrappy".
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #233
    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    5,923

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    both with the glove and with the bat. It is amazing the Reds could even come up with such useless players. They bring nothing positive except for being "scrappy".
    Ya know, it's damn funny that last year, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would have killed to have Aurillia not start at 2B. This year, I bet most would kill to have him start at either 1B or 2B.

    Denorfia in the OF, Dunn at 1B and a platoon at 2B. Why is it so hard?!?

  10. #234
    Member klw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,053

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    The only thing that makes me happy about this is that I also like the Red Sox. Plus living in New England I may actually get to see Wily Mo play alot more this year. I think Arroyo will be a good addition but I would have liked more or that less was sent. I am also surprised it wasn't a bigger deal with Valentin involved as the Sox are supposedly shopping for back up catchers and there was that report the Reds were looking at the 3rd catcher in San Diego.

  11. #235
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,118

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Womack now has one less guy to stand between him and PT considering that Freel is now more likely to back up an OF on a consistent basis. And if Womack gets two starts per week, that's a real issue- particularly when combined with Hatteberg stealing PA from better lineup options. No reason to slot Hatteberg at 1B and Dunn in the OF when you've got Denorfia available to play the OF on a daily basis.

    In short, Narron and Krivsky are going to use crappy players more often than they should as a result of the trade.
    While I understand your point, I think you are reading too much into Womack. It seems to me that they are intent to have Denorfia spend at least another half season in AAA, which I agree with. Womack is nothing more than a back-up. Him playing twice a week won't hinder anyone's devolopment. He's harmless this year.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  12. #236
    Member Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    6,371

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11
    While I understand your point, I think you are reading too much into Womack. It seems to me that they are intent to have Denorfia spend at least another half season in AAA, which I agree with. Womack is nothing more than a back-up. Him playing twice a week won't hinder anyone's devolopment. He's harmless this year.
    Tony Womack on this roster is harmful to anyone that actually cares about watching decent baseball. And he's VERY scary with a manager like Narron.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  13. #237
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    9,321

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by PickOff
    When basing the trade on Run Differential you have to look at who the other players are that would/would have played in their absence. I feel we give up more runs with the alternatives to Arroyo than we lose with the alternatives to Pena.
    It's a pretty easy comp.

    Certainly the Reds have 200 IP of 5.00 ERA baseball sitting on the current roster for Arroyo's slot. Matt Belisle could probably do 3/4 of that all on his own (and likely at a lower ERA than 5.00, but let's be realistic).

    The difference between a 4.50 ERA and a 5.00 ERA is about 12 Runs over 200 IP. Offensively, Scott Hatteberg was worth 57 Runs per 600 PA in 2005. Even if Pena only maintained his 2005 numbers, he would be worth 80 Runs over 600 PA. That's a difference of 23 Runs. And again, we're not even factoring in probable improvement by Pena and potential continued age decline by Hatteberg.

    So we've deleted 23 Runs and added most likely about 12. Now let's take a look at the following:

    Ramon Ortiz 2005: 5.47 DIPS
    Bronson Arroyo 2005: 4.57 DIPS

    Looking at it from a perspective of Defense-Independent pitching, Ramon Ortiz' DIPS ends up at 122 Runs Allowed over 200 IP. Arroyo? 102 Runs Allowed. That 20 Run advantage to Arroyo is almost identical to the 23 Run loss we see for Pena vs. Hatteberg.

    Knowing that, the Reds didn't have to trade Pena for Arroyo. They could have simply re-signed Ramon Ortiz and kept Pena as it would have been most likely a RD wash versus the Arroyo/Hatteberg combo. Ouch. Double ouch.

    Basically, Krivsky just told us that he doesn't trust anyone currently available to throw 200 IP of 5.00 ERA ball by themselves or in combination (i.e. 150-to-180 IP SP + 20-to-50 IP RP). So he made a bold move to acquire less than what the Reds actually needed and didn't make a Win probability impact to the plus side.

    That'll happen when your General Manager doesn't understand simple math.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  14. #238
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Reds acquire righty Arroyo for Pena
    By Justice B. Hill / MLB.com

    SARASOTA, Fla. -- Outfielder Wily Mo Pena had just said his hellos to his Reds teammates Monday and had to then turn around and say his good-byes.

    Fresh from the World Baseball Classic, Pena arrived in Reds camp and found out before the morning ended that he'd been traded to the Red Sox.

    "I was surprised when they told me," he said. "It was like when they traded me from the Yankees to here. It's another team. I'll have to focus and be ready for anything."

    In exchange for the 24-year-old Pena, the Reds picked up right-hander Bronson Arroyo, a pitcher who went 14-10 with a 4.51 ERA last season, and roughly $2 million to offset Arroyo's salary.

    The trade boiled down to two teams that had excess pieces in one area and willing to trade one of those pieces to strengthen an area of weakness, Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said.

    Krivsky said the trade came about very quickly when the two sides realized that they had mutual interests that could be served.

    "They've got about seven starting pitchers in their minds, and I would agree with that," he said of the Red Sox. "They're dealing from an area of surplus. They needed a right-handed bat. "

    He said Pena, long considered a talent that was ready to blossom, would fit in nicely to hitter-friendly Fenway Park, where he'll probably play a platoon role.

    Adding the 29-year-old Arroyo makes the Reds stronger, because a Major League team never has too much pitching, Krivsky said.

    "He brings us a proven starting pitcher," Krivksy said. "The last two years, he's averaged roughly 190 innings. He's taken the ball every fifth day. He's never been hurt.

    "I feel real good about the addition to our rotation."

    So does manager Jerry Narron.

    "For us, we get a solid Major League starter that's pitched in big games and knows how to compete," Narron said. "He's a guy who can throw a pitch over on any count. You've got to be able to do that.

    "He's a guy who can give you 200 innings, which we definitely need. One thing that we've been missing is guys that go deep in the games. We think he's going to be able to do that for us."

    Narron said he's made no decision on where Arroyo will fit into the rotation. He said Aaron Harang will remain at the front of it, and Arroyo should slide into the No. 2 or No. 3 spot.

    "Whether he'll pitch that first time out before (Brandon) Claussen or after him, I don't know," Narron said. "But he'll be right there somewhere at the top of it."

    In trading Pena, Narron will get a more settled situation in left field and at first base. He said Adam Dunn will move to left, and Scott Hatteberg will pick up at-bats at first base.

    Dunn and Hatteberg improve the defense at both positions. Narron said he hated to see Pena go, but ...

    "I like Wily Mo," Narron said. "I think everybody here does. But that's just part of the game. We're just trying to do everything we can to get better."

    Justice B. Hill is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...=.jsp&c_id=cin

    Sure you did, Jerry. You hated him after he decided to represent his country. It wouldn't surprise me if Jerry went to Krivsky and asked him to trade Wily Mo.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  15. #239
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I'm hoping Hatteberg goes hitless the rest of the Spring and then starts the season in a 0 for 50 slump. Same with Womack.

    If Krivsky can acquire Ryan Shealy, Choi, or Carlos Pena then I will completely forget about this deal.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  16. #240
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by CTA513
    I just hope Arroyo doesnt come here and do what Milton did last year.

    There's nothing to indicate that he will, unlike the numbers Milton brought with him, which should have been packaged with yellow caution tape.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25