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Thread: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

  1. #331
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    We like Lenny DiNardo, Jonathan Papelbon, and Jon Lester, who may be ready to help us at the end of the season. I still think we have enough pitching depth but don’t hold me to it if we’re scrambling for bodies in June.
    Almost every ounce of hatred I have is directed toward the Red Sox, but man I gotta admire Epstein's honesty. I would have keeled over from shock if we had ever heard anything like this come out of O'Brien's mouth.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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  3. #332
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    WMP had 1438 ML ab's and Dunn only 1208.
    Interesting. However, WMP never even had AAA experience before he was called up. But the fact remains, WMP wasn't ready for the majors when he came. Dunn was.

  4. #333
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by adampad
    Interesting. However, WMP never even had AAA experience before he was called up. But the fact remains, WMP wasn't ready for the majors when he came. Dunn was.
    This has been a longstanding problem with WMP given the structure of his contract when we got him from the Yankees. The first three years he was here, he should have been in the minors. Theo Epstein mentions that in his comments which I posted earlier.

  5. #334
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Wily Mo could be the next Sammy Sosa or Jesse Barfield.

    I suspect Jesse Barfield and think Krivsky got the better deal.

    Arroyo will throw 200 innings alongside Claussen, and Harang. That would be almost 40% of the load and I feel better about this rototation than years past.

    Good trade.

  6. #335
    Member Reds Fanatic's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    This is Sports Illustrated's analysis of the trade:

    This is the type of trade the Reds should have made two years ago -- swap a bat for a decent arm. The Reds had only two starters with a pulse -- Aaron Harang and Brandon Claussen -- before making this deal. Now they have three. On the downside, Arroyo is a flyball pitcher going to a homer-happy park, so you might want to keep him off your fantasy team because his ERA will take a hit. Pena may very well have become an All-Star if not for the way the Reds mangled his development. Instead he is just a very good platoon player -- his three-year averages against southpaws are .276-.347-.536. The Red Sox will be thrilled if they get that from him.

  7. #336
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by beb30
    Career for Arroyo
    776 Groundball Outs
    792 Flyball Outs

    essentially 50/50
    Yeah, but look at his ground outs to air outs the last two seasons. When he was a starter all year long. He pitched 383 innings the last two seasons as a starter.

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  8. #337
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Fanatic
    :
    I think Wily's contract is what mangled his development.

  9. #338
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz
    Okay, I'm a newbie here - what is PECOTA?

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    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  10. #339
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I think Wily's contract is what mangled his development.
    For the most part, this is true. There were times he should have played more, in my opinion, but for the most part it was his contract. It's a default setting for know-nothing national writers to c**p on the Reds. They're like a little pack of Beavis and Buttheads snickering under their pubic moustaches.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  11. #340
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by uks2h
    Just a view of where I am in my mind at this point....

    We had good offense, and bad pitching. Now, we trade the good offense (Casey, Pena, who's next?) and sign a bunch of "veterans".

    Two of the most loved players in Cincy were traded for mediocre pitchers.

    One thing I have learned (as I sit here and watch Reitsma pitch for the Braves) is that if I'm going to be a lifetime Reds fan, I might as well get used to mediocrity for a while. I just hope we can make the playoffs before I'm too old to go. I'm 21, by the way. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by adampad
    This is my point excactly

    Casey and Pena = good offense is an extreme stretch of the definition of good offense. Overrated and overpaid for Casey is definitely accurate. Burden of a contract (the one he signed with the Yankees) and unproven definitely is Pena. Next thing you know, you'll tell us Casey and Pena were great defensively...

    Last time I checked, Williams and Arroyo haven't pitched 1 inning of baseball that matters for the Reds, so it's ridiculously premature as well as unfair to label them mediocre.

    Time to go out and buy a #61 Reds jersey now!

  12. #341
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    But isn't Boston a Homer happy field too?????

  13. #342
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    But isn't Boston a Homer happy field too?????
    2005 Fenway Park Effects:

    Runs: 115

    Overall BA: 109
    Overall HR: 99

    BA RHB: 105
    BA LHB: 114

    HR RHB: 105
    HR LHB: 92

    For overall HR, the park is neutral. For RHB and HR, the park favors hitters slightly.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  14. #343
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    There is a difference between pitching and quality pitching. Arroyo is the former.

    It isnt about Pena for me, its about the return.
    Isn't Arroyo better than 3 or 4 starters the Reds alrady have? How can he possibly be worse?

    During the game today, they said he's a groundball pitcher. I haven't looked at the stats, so I'm taking them at their word (probably not a good thing to do though). Marty also said AD would stay in left field... don't know if Marty knows that for sure or if he was just talking. He often assumes more than he actually knows.

    I love WMP and hate to see him go, but I'm glad they chose to keep Austin.

    IMHO, Arroyo has got to be better than some of the slop that's already in the Reds' rotation.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  15. #344
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Pena may very well have become an All-Star if not for the way the Reds mangled his development. Instead he is just a very good platoon player -- his three-year averages against southpaws are .276-.347-.536.
    The Reds mangled his development?

    I'd say the Reds' hands were pretty much tied. Whomever wrote his contract mangled his development. I'm wondering if WMP even realized at the time what a disservice his agent/team was doing him.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  16. #345
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by adampad
    And WMP version of the minors was THE SHOW.
    Dunn's first minor league season -- 1998
    Pena's first minor league season -- 1999
    Dunn's call up to the majors -- 2001
    Pena's call up to the majors -- 2002

    What was your point again?
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