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Thread: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

  1. #361
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la
    The only question here is.....doee Arroyo make the Reds competitive? Clearly, the answer is NOT A CHANCE.
    How have you figured this?

    Arroyo by *himself* doesn't make the Reds competitive, but then again neither would Pena. it's foolish to use this deal as fodder for why the Reds won't be competitive this year, or in the future. Arroyo is a clear upgrade in the starting rotation, and Pena's value as a powerhouse masher with no plate discipline and even less of a glove was about what we got for him. Maybe Pena can vastly improve, and become that "most feared hitter" you mention. Or, considering the platoon system he's going to have to deal with, maybe he doesn't continue to develop and becomes a Branyan-type player--all power, no eye, and no glove. Krivsky saw a clear opportunity to improve the starting rotation immediately, and he took it. If you read this deal as an example of this team's ineptitude, you are reading entirely too much into it.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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  3. #362
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    registerthis, I hope you are right....but Im just not sure you put 8 million into the bullpen.
    Well, you also don't put an $8 million turn on the mound every fifth day. You play Milton either where he will be most effective, or where he is capable of doing the least amount of damage. If that place is the bulpen, so be it.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  4. #363
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    Please rephrase the Next Sammy Sosa Line. WMP is all natural.
    More Ruben Sierra than Sammy Sosa

  5. #364
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    Well, you also don't put an $8 million turn on the mound every fifth day. You play Milton either where he will be most effective, or where he is capable of doing the least amount of damage. If that place is the bulpen, so be it.
    Haven't you heard? Milton is gonna win 17 or 18 games this year.

  6. #365
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    the problem with that idea is the best place for milton is not in cincinnati. its probably not anywhere. he isnt a good pitcher. not for 1 inning out of the pen, not for 6 innings to start a game. he doesnt have good stuff anymore. He will be pitching somewhere on this team though. Odds are it will be at the start of games.

  7. #366
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I am really low after hearing about this trade. Pena or Kearns was the Reds' prime trading chip to improve in the next few years. If all the Reds can get for their best trade commodity is Bronson Arroyo, they are doomed to mediocrity for the next few years. Perhaps I have been in denial, but I wanted to think that if Pena and Kearns stayed healthy and put up a full year's numbers, they could have gotten a legitimate stud pitcher for one of them. Now that hope is gone.

    The Reds offense now consists of two real threats (CF, LF), two occasional threats (RF, SS) and four below average space fillers (with only 3B as potentially better).
    The Reds rotation is Harang, Arroyo, Claussen, Milton and D.Williams.
    The Reds closer is ....who knows?
    The Reds offense without Pena and Casey will scare no-one. Reds pitchers can't get any team out consistently. The only question is whether there are teams in even worse shape than the Reds.

  8. #367
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by TC81190
    Why, just why, couldn't they have traded Kearns? He's the worst of the OFs, including Denorfia, but Boston still would've taken it.
    How do you know this???????? If Kearns is really this bad why do you think Boston would be so eager to make the trade.

    Obviously I like Kearns and I disagree with you, but many others would share my opinion. I think trading Kearns would be a big mistake.

  9. #368
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    Obviously I like Kearns and I disagree with you, but many others would share my opinion. I think trading Kearns would be a big mistake.
    Seems like the Reds agreed, if you can believe the reports of them refusing to deal kearns to Boston.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  10. #369
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    How have you figured this?

    Arroyo by *himself* doesn't make the Reds competitive, but then again neither would Pena. it's foolish to use this deal as fodder for why the Reds won't be competitive this year, or in the future. Arroyo is a clear upgrade in the starting rotation, and Pena's value as a powerhouse masher with no plate discipline and even less of a glove was about what we got for him. Maybe Pena can vastly improve, and become that "most feared hitter" you mention. Or, considering the platoon system he's going to have to deal with, maybe he doesn't continue to develop and becomes a Branyan-type player--all power, no eye, and no glove. Krivsky saw a clear opportunity to improve the starting rotation immediately, and he took it. If you read this deal as an example of this team's ineptitude, you are reading entirely too much into it.
    If you are NOT going to compete this year, then why trade a 23 year old with tremendous bat speed and unlimited power for an average, 29 year old pitcher? Had Krivisky trade Pena for a couple of top notch prospects, OK then. And, if you want to get the most you can get for Pena, why not wait until ke kas played everyday for a few months?

    His value cannot get lower than 10 AB's in the WBC.

    We all talked about trading offense for pitching...nobody disagrees with that....but to trade for the junk they have gotten so far is just making trades to make it look like you are in charge.

    Right now, the BEST trade for a pitcher was made using a guy most of you thought was terrible (in Jose Guillen) where the Reds got Harang. At least Harang was going upwards in his development.

    WMP is still developing. Had the Reds crummy managers played him more often, he might be farther along. WMP is going to get better the more he plays. If you want to compare him to Russell Branyan, then we have nothing more to talk about.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  11. #370
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la
    In two years when Pena is the MOST feared power hitter in the AL, people will be trying to remember WHO the BoSox traded to get him.
    I appreciate the love of all things Wily Mo...but people need to maintain some perspective.

    We're talking about a raw talent here with as much of a chance to regress into any number of 5 tool talents gone awry as he is to develop into this fearsome power hitter that makes mortals tremble in his wake.

    Boston is banking that he leans more towards the latter. The Reds are banking that he'll lean more towards the former. That's the way these deals work because nobody knows for sure what development track a player is going to take.

    But, to listen to the way everyone is going on about Pena, you'd think the Reds just traded Albert Pujols. Let's just all try to keep a little perspective -- should make for better dialogue.
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  12. #371
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Let's just talk about trading upside and AGE here. In any terms, how does anybody think the Reds got the best of this deal.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  13. #372
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    Casey and Pena = good offense is an extreme stretch of the definition of good offense. Overrated and overpaid for Casey is definitely accurate. Burden of a contract (the one he signed with the Yankees) and unproven definitely is Pena. Next thing you know, you'll tell us Casey and Pena were great defensively...

    Last time I checked, Williams and Arroyo haven't pitched 1 inning of baseball that matters for the Reds, so it's ridiculously premature as well as unfair to label them mediocre.

    Time to go out and buy a #61 Reds jersey now!
    Hmm...last time I checked, Pena or Casey haven't played for their respective teams either. Yet you have labeled them as overrated, overpaid, bad defensively, unproven...

  14. #373
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    I appreciate the love of all things Wily Mo...but people need to maintain some perspective.

    We're talking about a raw talent here with as much of a chance to regress into any number of 5 tool talents gone awry as he is to develop into this fearsome power hitter that makes mortals tremble in his wake.

    Boston is banking that he leans more towards the latter. The Reds are banking that he'll lean more towards the former. That's the way these deals work because nobody knows for sure what development track a player is going to take.

    But, to listen to the way everyone is going on about Pena, you'd think the Reds just traded Albert Pujols. Let's just all try to keep a little perspective -- should make for better dialogue.

  15. #374
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I don't have a problem with this deal. We need pitching, and Boston needs a non-fielding batter. Sure, we're not going to run roughshod over the NL Central with Arroyo at the helm--but we weren't going to get there with Pena, either.

    Does the trade make the team better, I say yes.

  16. #375
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Gammons just said Arroyo is automatically the Reds best pitcher...


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