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Thread: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

  1. #376
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBurn
    Gammons just said Arroyo is automatically the Reds best pitcher...
    It's the W-L thing...you gotta understand.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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  3. #377
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBurn
    Gammons just said Arroyo is automatically the Reds best pitcher...
    He's wrong.
    Go Gators!

  4. #378
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBurn
    Gammons just said Arroyo is automatically the Reds best pitcher...

    but thats coming from a hometown Boy. He was a Boston beat writer for years...

    Harang is our best starter right now. Even MLB.com ranks him just ahead of Bronson.

  5. #379
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed
    He's wrong.
    No, he's Peter.

    You're Krono.

    And stop calling me Shirley.

    And Peter is wrong. If he did his research (pardon me with the next few seconds, I'm typing in uncontrollable laughter trying to think about Peter Gammons doing actual research) he would remember back in August that he said that Aaron Harang was the best thing in Cincinnati.

    What has Harang done in the offseason that would require Peter's tune to change?

    Just because you live in Bah-ston doesn't make you the next Bill Monbouquette.
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  6. #380
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    I don't like this trade. I'm hoping for the best, but this dude is going to give Milton a serious run for his money. Awful.......

  7. #381
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by kyred14
    this dude is going to give Milton a serious run for his money.
    Based on what???????????

  8. #382
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by uks2h
    Hmm...last time I checked, Pena or Casey haven't played for their respective teams either. Yet you have labeled them as overrated, overpaid, bad defensively, unproven...
    Please tell me how/why Sean Casey is worth 7.8 million this year. IIRC, by the end of his contract, he'll be making 9 million per year.

    Code:
    Sean Casey averages 2003 through 2005
    
    Games	Runs	Hits	RBI	TB	OPS
    143	82	172	79	254	.822
    Those numbers, a 3 year average, while he's making the money he's making means 2 things: He's not worth the money he's making, which means he's overrated, and overpaid. If you cut his contract in 1/2, then by all means he's neither overrated nor overpaid. But he's not.

    Time for you to tell me how Casey and Pena are defensive gems that will make us forget about Keith Hernandez and Roberto Clemente.

    Pena has more errors than assists in his defensive career, and sports a robust .973 career Fielding %. Strong.

    As for Mr. Casey... don't let his career Fielding % mislead you, as it doesn't take into consideration factor such as balls he can't get to since he's probably one of the slowest human beings in the world. His lack of speed and reflexes makes him the perfect candidate as a DH, but for some unknown reason he continues to rot at 1B.

    Pena and Casey = defensive liabilities.

    It's very fair to label Pena as "unproven" because he has a whopping 302 games in 4 years. I'm not sure why you'd debate this. Do you feel we know the real WMP? If that's the case, then by all means, I'd trade WMP for Arroyo once on monday, once on wednesday, once on friday and twice on sunday!

    Please show me how I'm wrong with my labels.

  9. #383
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21
    Please tell me how/why Sean Casey is worth 7.8 million this year. IIRC, by the end of his contract, he'll be making 9 million per year.

    Code:
    Sean Casey averages 2003 through 2005
    
    Games	Runs	Hits	RBI	TB	OPS
    143	82	172	79	254	.822
    Those numbers, a 3 year average, while he's making the money he's making means 2 things: He's not worth the money he's making, which means he's overrated, and overpaid. If you cut his contract in 1/2, then by all means he's neither overrated nor overpaid. But he's not.

    Time for you to tell me how Casey and Pena are defensive gems that will make us forget about Keith Hernandez and Roberto Clemente.

    Pena has more errors than assists in his defensive career, and sports a robust .973 career Fielding %. Strong.

    As for Mr. Casey... don't let his career Fielding % mislead you, as it doesn't take into consideration factor such as balls he can't get to since he's probably one of the slowest human beings in the world. His lack of speed and reflexes makes him the perfect candidate as a DH, but for some unknown reason he continues to rot at 1B.

    Pena and Casey = defensive liabilities.

    It's very fair to label Pena as "unproven" because he has a whopping 302 games in 4 years. I'm not sure why you'd debate this. Do you feel we know the real WMP? If that's the case, then by all means, I'd trade WMP for Arroyo once on monday, once on wednesday, once on friday and twice on sunday!

    Please show me how I'm wrong with my labels.
    I don't thimk he's really questioning your labels are right or wrong, but the fact that you seem it fit to rate Casey and Pena, but not Williams and Bronson.

  10. #384
    Member dman's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Ever wakeup and wonder why you had to be a Reds fan? I do...a lot. What the heck did Reds fan do to deserve getting all these horrible GM's? It just never ends.

    Offer Antonetti like 5 million a year to come here.
    OK, So you don't like the trade. Now, how many posts are you going to make hammering in the same point?

    Even if the trade blows chunks, I'll still give Krivsky an "A" for having the stones enough to make the trade.

    Personally, I saw Pena as somewhat of a liability in spite of his power numbers. We get people on this board that harp about Dunn's strikeout numbers, had Pena been in everyday Dunn would never be able to catch those numbers. Plus Pena was a liability in the field.

  11. #385
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    I don't thimk he's really questioning your labels are right or wrong, but the fact that you seem it fit to rate Casey and Pena, but not Williams and Bronson.

    Personally, I like Arroyo, and I think he'll make a great #2 pitcher for us in 2006, but I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if he goes Milton on us and tries to lead the world in losses.

    As for Williams, he's a lefty, so fortunately or unfortunately he'll get more of a benefit of a doubt. I mean in all honesty, can he really pitch worse than Milton or a rehabbed Wilson? Double digit wins for a horrible Pirates team last year is a step in the right direction for me.

    Bottomline, we need pitching, and both Williams and Arroyo pitch, last time I checked.

    We were a 70 to 75 win team before the WMP/Arroyo deal, now hopefully we can be a 77 to 81 win team. Give the new regime another year of moving and shaking, and hopefully by 2007 we can be a consistent above .500 team.

    Plus, I'm rating what's left town and what's happened here, I have no idea what Casey and Pena will do for Pittsburgh and Boston respectively, just like no one knows quite yet how Arroyo and Williams will do for our Reds.

  12. #386
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    dman, you can give someone all the A's you want for having stones to make a trade. I want someone who has the brains to make the right decision involving a trade. I dont think this was the right decision. I give it a D-.

  13. #387
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
    I don't thimk he's really questioning your labels are right or wrong, but the fact that you seem it fit to rate Casey and Pena, but not Williams and Bronson.
    Thanks, Kearnsy. Exactly my point.

  14. #388
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Offense will score 100-150 less runs this year. Pitching will not improve.

    Hey jmmclain, fire up that Fire Krivsky website!

    Bull Crap!!!! Has there ever been a stretch that WMP has played 40 games in a row without an phantom injury? This is a good trade. WMP will never live up to his potential. Dunn has chunks in his stool that are tougher than WMP! Hey I just thought of a new signature for my posts!!!
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  15. #389
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    What the hell, I might as well chime in.

    Wily Mo....if you all remember last year when the kid was playing full time he was awesome..then he got hurt and into somewhat of a spiral he went. If this guy plays regular, he plays very well and only gets better. If platooned..he will be less than average. Just my opinion.

    Bronson..for some sick reason I have always liked this guy but not so sure about him in GAB. Gives up dingers and many extra base hits that could turn into more. I do think he is capable and don't think he will be another Uncle Milty.

    Wayne has taken a chance and he will either float or sink with it. I am going to be optimistic and say it is an upgrade...I hope.

    I just can't help thinking how much we might have got out of Pena after he played regular for 1 full year. I have a lot of faith in this guy...maybe more so than Kearnsy. Kearns just has never been the same since Fat Ray sat on him right in front of my face down in Atlanta. I could have cried cause I like him so much.

    Ain't baseball great!!!!!!

  16. #390
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Trade: Wily Mo to Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la
    Let's just talk about trading upside and AGE here. In any terms, how does anybody think the Reds got the best of this deal.
    Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    I appreciate the love of all things Wily Mo...but people need to maintain some perspective.

    We're talking about a raw talent here with as much of a chance to regress into any number of 5 tool talents gone awry as he is to develop into this fearsome power hitter that makes mortals tremble in his wake.

    Boston is banking that he leans more towards the latter. The Reds are banking that he'll lean more towards the former. That's the way these deals work because nobody knows for sure what development track a player is going to take.

    But, to listen to the way everyone is going on about Pena, you'd think the Reds just traded Albert Pujols. Let's just all try to keep a little perspective -- should make for better dialogue.
    There's one. And I'm almost 2.
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