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Thread: Cheapshot at Junior?

  1. #1
    WilyMo
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    Cheapshot at Junior?

    Bowden quote when referring to Alfonso Soriano.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Despite the chaos, Bowden said he does not regret making the trade.

    "The risk is always there," Bowden said. "When I made the Ken Griffey Jr. trade with Cincinnati, everyone said this was one of the best trades in baseball, congratulations, and he was hurt for four years and it was a horrible trade.

    "That's part of the game."

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  3. #2
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Cheapshot or truth?

    Did you think in 2000 that Jr. was going to get hurt like this every year?

    Me neither.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  4. #3
    WilyMo
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Yeah but it's not like the Reds gave up a king's ransom for Junior. The only factor is the money.

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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    And as described in the other thread Bowden would have to have had his head in the sand to not know that Soriano was petulant and had already refused to move when at Texas. I don't think that there was any indication Junior was going to be injured or was even carrying injuries when he came to the REDS.

  6. #5
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    The reason they didn't give up a king's ransom is that Jr. held the Mariners hostage for telling him he wanted to go to one team.

    The Reds signed him to a hometown (at the time) discount. Lindner was looking to make a big splash to start the healing after Schott left.

    Too bad Uncle Carl wasn't interested in spending it.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  7. #6
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    Cheapshot or truth?

    Did you think in 2000 that Jr. was going to get hurt like this every year?

    Me neither.
    No one did. It's why Bowden's statement is bogus. He was comparing the Soriano deal to Junior's deal. Like I said in another thread, one situation (Soriano's) was easily forseen and predictable. The other (Junior's injury) was not. Bowden's simply trying to shrug off the Soriano trade as "Well, sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles." which absolves him of the responsibility HE had to make sure that Soriano would be a good fit for his team and play where the team needed him to play.

    Soriano's decision not to play left field wasn't the result of a freakish, unforseen injury. It was well known, even to the Nationals, that Soriano had no desire to play the outfield prior to being traded. JimBo did it anyway. JimBo bears the responsibility for that decision, which it appears he is unwilling to accept.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  8. #7
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMo
    Bowden quote when referring to Alfonso Soriano.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Despite the chaos, Bowden said he does not regret making the trade.

    "The risk is always there," Bowden said. "When I made the Ken Griffey Jr. trade with Cincinnati, everyone said this was one of the best trades in baseball, congratulations, and he was hurt for four years and it was a horrible trade.

    "That's part of the game."
    I don't know how many times I can say this without feeling my own brains drizzle out of my ears, but it never was and is not now a "horrible trade". It was a fantastic deal in almost every way. The fact that it did not work out as expected, coupled with the myriad other mistakes the FO made in the succeeding years, does not negate the fact that it was a good signing.

    Frank Robinson: a bad trade. Many people could have guessed that. Griffey Junior: a good trade that did not pan out as expected. But no one could have known that at the time.

    It's semantics, but it's important. (And it's worth noting that it's non-Reds fans who least understand this distinction.)
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  9. #8
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Yup, Bowden is trying to equate unforseeable catastrophic injuries to a player not being willing to change positions even though it was common knowledge that he was strongly averse to doing so...

    Sorry Jimbo -- you gambled that it wasn't really a big deal to Soriano and lost. Totally different situation. Just ask all of the writers who questioned the intelligence of the deal BEFORE it was even consumated.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #9
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heath
    The reason they didn't give up a king's ransom is that Jr. held the Mariners hostage for telling him he wanted to go to one team.
    He didn't hold the Mariners hostage - He gave them an opportunity to trade him rather than just lose him to free agency like ARod. The Mariners dealt for what they thought was right for them. Certainly Cameron served them well for a number of years and like REDS trades in recent years you can't blame the player traded for failure or success.

  11. #10
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget
    He didn't hold the Mariners hostage - He gave them an opportunity to trade him rather than just lose him to free agency like ARod. The Mariners dealt for what they thought was right for them. Certainly Cameron served them well for a number of years and like REDS trades in recent years you can't blame the player traded for failure or success.
    Here's the exact conversation

    Griffey - Trade me so I can be closer to Orlando.

    Howard Lincoln - Well, there's Tampa Bay.

    Griffey - No, send me to the National League.

    Howard Lincoln - Well, there's Miami.

    Griffey - No, send me to Cincinnati - that's the only place I will go.

    Howard Lincoln - No, they have no one we want.

    Griffey - Well, then, I guess I'll walk after the year.

    Lincoln (grumbles, picks up phone) Yes, get me Jim Bowden.


    There was no opportunity to trade with any other team. The Mariners had one opportunity to get anything from anybody for Junior. That team was Cincinnati.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  12. #11
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Not a cheapshot, not even close to one...just the truth. Try to reconsider your thread title next time, as I began to get furious the moment I saw the title.

  13. #12
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    As I recall the Mariners tried really hard to deal him to the Pirates and that's when the Cincy or bust declaration came down.
    Go Gators!

  14. #13
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    I do not think JimBo is familiar with the various levels of risk. If I take a trip on an airplane, there is a risk that the plane will crash. But the risk is very, very minimal. Then there is the risk of starting a fire when you are surrounded by a pool of gasoline. You may not die but the alternative is not going to be very fun. JimBo lit a cigar next to a gas tank with the Soriano deal.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  15. #14
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    I wouldn't call it a hostage situation. Junior could have left for free and all the Mariners would have got was a draft pick. So he gave them an opportunity to get something. Not nothing.

  16. #15
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Cheapshot at Junior?

    Is is public knowledge that the Rangers would not allow the Nationals to speak with Soriano or his representation before the trade was official? Just curious. Although not common place it is happening more frequently and certainly would have helped Jimbo bridge this gap.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08


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