I've been asking this question for 3 pages now, have yet to get a response.Originally Posted by RFS62
I've been asking this question for 3 pages now, have yet to get a response.Originally Posted by RFS62
We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.
Exactly. In 2004 WOmack was -14 FRAA at 2b and Hatteberg was -14 at 1B. Unbelievable that the worst defensive team in baseball is going for defensive downgrades, I didn't think it was possible.Originally Posted by Cedric
Exactly. I've been screaming that all morning. What in the hell is the purpose of rushing this?Originally Posted by Crash Davis
This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.
I wouldn't have traded him now. Does that answer the question? I've said that twice before.Originally Posted by registerthis
This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.
Originally Posted by M2
Well said. Exactly how I feel, although I'm not sure Pena will ever be Ron Gant. He could be more, but I've never been sold on it.
We'll go down in history as the first society that wouldn't save itself because it wasn't cost effective ~ Kurt Vonnegut
I wouldn't have a problem at all with that. Just you and I know that wouldn't happen.Originally Posted by M2
This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.
One thing is for sure, I'm pretty sure Marty's day has been made
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
So for all that don't like this, tell me which is better...
One year of WMP, even if he hits 35-40 Homers and skips off into arbitration where he wins a number the Reds can't and shouldn't match,
or
Three years of league average pitching from Arroyo at a guaranteed cost, improved defense for the short term, and the money to chase a real pitcher next fall.
So next spring's rotation looks like: Top pitcher, Harang, Claussen, Arroyo,(Milton until September,)
This trade improves the team in the short run, and in the long run, why is it bad now?
It's not necessarily the trade that really irks me. It's 500 PA's for Hatteberg that does. Uncle already. Was Womack not enough?All you guys who don't like the deal, who do you think Wily Mo could have brought in a trade?
If that happens it's obvious they want better defense out there. Dunn may or may not be better at 1st than Hatteberg but he's better than WMP in LF. It's a fly ball staff. They need people who can catch those fly balls. Sounds like they are pretty desperate for pitching. If Milton is not going to be any better - regardless of what Mercker thinks - and Wilson isn't coming back anytime soon, it's a pretty sad outlook for the pitching staff.Originally Posted by flyer85
I also think this is backlash for WMP playing in the WBC instead of trying to improve his skills in Spring Training. Of course that'll teach WMP since he most likely is going to a team that is going to be in the hunt for a division title and perhaps a world title. This also gives the Sox insurance if Manny has an "episode" and retires or is "injured" or they actually trade him. Good deal for the Sox, jury's out for the Reds.
I like the deal. We're trading 3 years of Pena (he'd be elig for FA then) for 3 years of Arroyo at a fixed cost.
I really like Arroyo replacing Geranomo in the rotation. It helps us avoid a lot of potential bleeding in that slot in the rotation and will make the Reds a lot more pleasant to watch over the next 3 years.
Krivisty inherited a mess, DanO's stalling about trading the excess OFs has now bit us in the rear. Both Kearns and Pena are not worth a lot less than they were.
I'd really like this deal if Freel became a fulltime starter in the OF. That still has a chance of happening eventually, even though it appears Hattenberg will get first shot of being a starter. I agree with the minority here that Freel isn't well suited to the infield. Letting him start in LF or CF (cleared by this move) is much better.
Yes, Arroyo isn't an ace, but we made a good step towards repairing this awful staff. I really doubt Pena would be able to fetch another starting pitcher that was better AND locked up for 3 years. Remember, we have to look longterm.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
the only average defensive players the Reds will have out there will be EE and AK. Every one else is way below average.Originally Posted by M2
1b Hatteberg -14 in 2004(last full season at the position)
2b WOmack -14 in 2004(last full season at the position)
SS Lopez -11 in 2005
LF Dunn -10
CF Jr -18
Amazing
No, because the question wasn't whether or not you'd deal Pena, it was what you feel Pena is worth. You don't believe a pitcher of Arroyo's caliber is on par with Pena, so I simply asked what you believe a reasonable return would be. It doesn't have to be a deal that could logistically happen tomorrow, I'm just trying to guage where you place the value of a player like Pena.Originally Posted by Cedric
We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.
If people are convinced this only brings the team from 90 losses to 85 losses,
why do people care whether Hatteberg and Womack are starting? They'll only be here for a year, and if they excell they'll be shipped off for better spare parts.
I care because I want Denoforia and Encarnacion getting better.Originally Posted by Hoosier Red
This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.
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